# clear coats

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#### carson

##### Well-Known Member
I HATE BLUSHING CLEAR COATS!!!!
Is there any clear coat that resists blushing.
I used to do some auto body work and never had the kind of blushing that I get from Krylon.
I'm thinking of going to a paint gun.
At least you can add alittle retarder and stop most blushing that way.
I've tried future floor finish and just can't get a smooth finish on a bigger rocket.
Tried it in a touch up gun but could not get good coverage without it dripping off the rocket.
Help!!!!

#### limd21

##### Well-Known Member
I share your frustration. The automotive clear coat you've worked with sets a high standard just not found in other products. Nothing in a rattle can is remotely close to the consistently deep, smooth gloss attainable with automotive clears.

I've gotten Future to work pretty well on smaller jobs, but it took a *lot* of coats to eventually get a good, smooth build. I agree with you that it's not as suitable for larger jobs.

The downside to automotive clears, of course, is handling complexity and material safety issues - most all of these are two-part urethane compositions that absolutely demand proper respect to safety procedure.

When will somebody come up with a deep, shiny, smooth, relatively run-resistant clear that isn't so toxic? I can trade some durability as I'm painting models, not cars.

It seems like with all advances in paint technology, this one should be solvable, but I've yet to see it.

#### carson

##### Well-Known Member
Surely there is a paint that can be sprayed from a gun that will work well on rockets.
Something out of the furniture finishes maybe.

#### limd21

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Carson
Surely there is a paint that can be sprayed from a gun that will work well on rockets.
Something out of the furniture finishes maybe.
A lot of the traditional furniture finishes, varnish, shellac, most polys, have an amber or yellowish cast. So that leaves either lacquer or something like PolyCrylic. I've used the PolyCrylic "gloss", but it's still not as shiny as an automotive clear. Maybe some extra buffing would get it to come up to a really fine shine, but I don't want to go to that effort on a model rocket. Lacquer certainly is a possibility, but even lacquer benefits from a post-spray rub and polish. Even if that wasn't true, shooting it is really not that much more convenient to use than a modern auto clear.

I guess it's just a matter of standard. For many jobs, the result from Krylon clear or PolyCrylic gloss is still pretty nice - but in my mind no better than I can get from Future.

#### Stymye

##### Well-Known Member
mabey try some other brands, Krylon is not the "clearest" clear coat by far ,and does blush very easily.
To get the crystal clear look,some wet sanding and/or buffing will be helpfull . bottom line it takes some work to get that ultimate finish even in the automotive world. spraying is just the tip of the iceberg.

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Testor's Gloss Coat works real well and shiney as heck!

I use it over automotive metallic paints from a rattle can...works great!

#### limd21

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by stymye
mabey try some other brands, Krylon is not the "clearest" clear coat by far ,and does blush very easily.
To get the crystal clear look,some wet sanding and/or buffing will be helpfull . bottom line it takes some work to get that ultimate finish even in the automotive world. spraying is just the tip of the iceberg.
Yes - no doubt that wet-sanding gives the ultimate finish, but omitting that, even a good "gun coat" of a modern two-part urethane is way better than almost any alternative. After all, 99.9999% of the new cars out there have never seen a piece of wet sandpaper yet most have a levels of shine and gloss that are still *very* good. Again, I think it's a matter of standard.

#### Micromeister

##### Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Ditto sandmans comment on Testers clear's ...but WHY clear coat anything?
It isn't the protection you think it is... Future is an alternative, but I've stopped using any and all clears...They all yellow! you can get the very high gloss with finesse-it II and a good automotive wax to protect your decals.
Just another way of looking at your models.

#### limd21

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Micromeister
Ditto sandmans comment on Testers clear's ...but WHY clear coat anything?
It isn't the protection you think it is... Future is an alternative, but I've stopped using any and all clears...They all yellow! you can get the very high gloss with finesse-it II and a good automotive wax to protect your decals.
Just another way of looking at your models.
I think it's a matter of preference and just what "look" you're after.

I shoot water-based acrylic paints that dry to a completely flat finish - no shine whatsoever. Generally, I like a reasonably shiny coat on most models and some really pop if they have a really deep super gloss. I've used finesse-it II and wax, but over a truly flat paint, that results in more of a muted shine effect. It's fine for what it is, but it's by no means a "high gloss" look.

As to Future yellowing, there's considerable debate as to whether it yellows or not. I've read a few conflicting tests, and some conclude it yellows and others conclude that more than likely what is yellowing is the undercoat. I've not decided myself, but there is one guy out there that has shot future over a white plastic sheet, where the white comes not from paint but the base plastic itself - so the white itself is highly yellow resistant. He's not seen any yellowing on the sheet in about a years worth of time - some of it sitting on a window sill.

#### Stymye

##### Well-Known Member
I've concluded that it does not yellow ...I have a very yellowed nike smoke that was finished with future, I took some alcohol and removed a section of future and found the underlying paint layer was yellowed.not the future....! is it possible that future accelerates the process?

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
but WHY clear coat anything?
Micro, I was refering to automotive metallic paints in the rattle cans.

You HAVE to clear coat them or they look terrible.

As for anything else...well, yea, Testors Dullcoat is about the worse for turning yellow.

For a flat finish somebody, can't remember who, said that if you mix talcum powder with Future you will get a flat finish...I've never tried it.

#### dtomko

##### Well-Known Member
It's not my original idea, but I have passed along the talcum powder in Future tip. You can also mix in Micro-Scale acrylic flat, or use that or satin straight. Basically you can get any variation from high gloss to completely flat with acrylics. I've seen a number of articles that state that it's the white paint that yellows, not the overcoat. Most white enamel paints will yellow over time; I don't think Future speeds up things. I've read that keeping models out of sunlight helps. I only clear coat rockets with decals, which is most of them.
Drew Tomko

#### BobH48

##### Well-Known Member
Ditto sandmans comment on Testers clear's ...but WHY clear coat anything?
It isn't the protection you think it is... Future is an alternative, but I've stopped using any and all clears...They all yellow!
I have read reports that conclude that Future does not yellow.

I believe it was from Fine Scale Modeler magazine... They cater to plastic model builders.

The problem seems to be that the clear coats are applied before the base coat is 100% cured and the chemicals that would be "outgassed" (their word, not mine) get sealed in with the clear and cause the base coat to yellow .

You know, I think it was sandman that said "If you can still smell it, it isn't dry".

Their conclusion from their tests is that the paints we use aren't completely cured for up to a month after application.

Who ever waits that long after finishing a rocket to clearcoat. You want to go out and fly it.

The plastic model people can let it sit on the shelf for a month before clear coating since it's only going to sit on the shelf after.

#### lets fly high

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Carson
I HATE BLUSHING CLEAR COATS!!!!
Is there any clear coat that resists blushing.
I used to do some auto body work and never had the kind of blushing that I get from Krylon.
I'm thinking of going to a paint gun.
At least you can add alittle retarder and stop most blushing that way.
I've tried future floor finish and just can't get a smooth finish on a bigger rocket.
Tried it in a touch up gun but could not get good coverage without it dripping off the rocket.
Help!!!!
Just use the automotive clear nothing beats the shine. I use ppg's low end clears(omni mc 161 20$a quart) on all my rockets no matter how big. Check out the shine on this one and I haven't even wet sanded it yet. #### carson ##### Well-Known Member How does it react to rattle can base coats? Or do you use auto paint for that too? #### limd21 ##### Well-Known Member Originally posted by lets fly high Just use the automotive clear nothing beats the shine. I use ppg's low end clears(omni mc 161 20$ a quart) on all my rockets no matter how big. Check out the shine on this one and I haven't even wet sanded it yet.
Thanks for posting that picture. It shows what I was talking about earlier - that sort of shine is just not realistically within the realm of Future, Krylon etc... And that's my gripe, too. I wish there was an safer, easier handling alternative to this sort of material. Sure, I have the right safety gear to use when shooting two-part urethane paints, but I hate to have to "rig up" to that level just for modeling.

Big-scale car factories are now experimenting with waterborne clear coat technology, but it's very new and very expensive. Even so, hearing that such things are being worked on gives me hope that there may be something we hobbyists can get our hands on in the future that is a bit more friendly to deal with.

#### eugenefl

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by limd21
Thanks for posting that picture. It shows what I was talking about earlier - that sort of shine is just not realistically within the realm of Future, Krylon etc... And that's my gripe, too. I wish there was an safer, easier handling alternative to this sort of material. Sure, I have the right safety gear to use when shooting two-part urethane paints, but I hate to have to "rig up" to that level just for modeling.
Check out <a href="https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9857&highlight=baddest">THIS</a> thread for more pictures of the lets fly high Richter Recker. All of Joe's rockets look like this. His thing is to build a few rockets then "rig up" and paint them all up in one session. Simply amazing at what some of his rockets look like....

#### lets fly high

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Carson
How does it react to rattle can base coats?
Or do you use auto paint for that too?
The only spray can base I've ever used were from an auto parts store I think the name brand was plasti- kote as for my rockets yes I do use auto base on just about for every thing. Being in the automotive paint and fibreglass molding buisness I've aquired alot of extra paint and different materials that I use on all my rockets fortunate for me.

#### carson

##### Well-Known Member
Now that what I'm talking about.
I'm the kind of person that likes to build maybe more than I like to fly.
To make a $10 rocket look like a$100 rocket is a good feeling of acheivement.

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
I'm the kind of person that likes to build maybe more than I like to fly.
But if it doesn't fly...it's just a model.