# Classic Estes Cineroc/Astron Omega decal questions.

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#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Ever since 1984, when I got my hands on a 1971 Estes Catalog (which I still have), I've been in love with the looks of the original Estes Cineroc. I recently settled a court case, and I've got a precious little bit of mad money. I'm hoping to create the closest thing I can to the original Estes Cineroc with Astron Omega launch vehicle. Certainly I'll be needing to get my hands on one of the Semroc kits, but the markings just aren't quite right enough for me.

In my research (namely looking at page 34 and 53 of the 1971 Estes catalog), it appears (on page 34) that the 1971 Astron Omega had the name "cineroc" in something that closely resembles Haettenschweil font (possibly bolded) with the Estes logo in the top left, with OMEGA in a smaller font size (and black), and a font I haven't yet identified printed under it (page 53's rocket lacks the cineroc decal on the body tube). For all I can tell, it only had one name decal, located presumably opposite of the launch lugs. Can someone confirm that it only had the one decal, or does it have two? I've also read that the Omega ordered separately didn't include the "cineroc" decal(s) (as can be seen in the photo below)

The page 53 photo shows the "cineroc" decal appears on the camera payload section, this time it's white (and also has the Estes logo). It also appears only to have one decal with the name on the camera. Is this correct, or does it have two as well.

Lastly, I can see in the page 53 photo only one yellow band below the camera port. However in other online photos there are two yellow bands that are located one above, and one below the camera port, and yet others one yellow band above the camera port.

I've seen Excelsior Rocketry's decal sheet advertised, and been in contact with Gord, and he's updated it to have one cineroc in blue and one in white (and some yellow striping) , but I'm hoping for an outsider's feedback for how accurate the previous version looked before I pull the trigger and spend $30.50 (including S&H) just for decals (I have a hard enough time just spending$20 for a complete kit).

Thanks
K'Tesh

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#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Anybody know where I can find a link to the Cineroc's instructions. I've seen the operational manual.pdf, but I've heard tell of plans being emailed around on yeolderocketshoppe, but I (for some unknown reason) can't join YORS and thus ask the original members. My searches keep going in circles here.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
K'Tesh

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#### rocketron1948

##### Well-Known Member
Semroc makes a clone kit that looks very close to the original. I wouldn't waste time trying to create the old camera. You can achieve far superior results in terms of video qualty and include sound with an inexpensive keychain camera.

Rocketron

##### Well-Known Member
Don't see why you couldn't put a modern keychain camera in a reproduction of the original Super 8 nosecone.

#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Semroc makes a clone kit that looks very close to the original. I wouldn't waste time trying to create the old camera. You can achieve far superior results in terms of video qualty and include sound with an inexpensive keychain camera.

Rocketron

I'm aware of the Semroc clone, what I'm really looking for is the painting and decal instructions (as well as the original parts list) of the original combo rocket. I have every intention of using the 808 #16 camera I just bought for the video.

Since I posted originally, I found JimZ's plans for the OMEGA online (KP-52P) (I couldn't access them from home, but today at school I can (and I can print them). However, I still don't have a definitive answer to the question related instructions of the 1971 Catalog's Combination Offer of the CINEROC and Omega ordered together (Cat. No. 701-RC-8).

And besides the CINEROC's Operational Manual, did it come with any other instructions (I'm looking for decal info)? From the 1971 catalog, I can see that in 1971 (page 52) it was "Completely assembled with Flight-Pak loaded with color film, 2 batteries, and an 18" parachute".

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#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
THATS AWESOME!!!! I've been looking for something like that for some time now! Now, If I could only modify it to break down into its constituent parts, and come up with a mount for the 808 Cam and the mirror(s) (... extra battery, a sounding device, etc), I'd be ready for a 3D printer.

http://www.oldrocketplans.com/pubs/Estes/cineroc.pdf

In the manual you will see that the yellow stripe is actually tape used to seal the camera seam.
I recently turned up the Cineroc Operating Manual, but I didn't get a chance to read it through... Still looking for a copy of the 1971 Cat. No. 701-RC-8 (Cineroc/Omega combo offer) instructions.

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#### luke strawwalker

##### Well-Known Member
Anybody know where I can find a link to the Cineroc's instructions. I've seen the operational manual.pdf, but I've heard tell of plans being emailed around on yeolderocketshoppe, but I (for some unknown reason) can't join YORS and thus ask the original members. My searches keep going in circles here.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
K'Tesh
What sort of trouble are you having?? This seems to be a common problem on YORF and people give up... they use an older version of the forum software and were getting bombed pretty badly by spambots so they tightened up the joining stuff a bit (too much most likely). If you have trouble joining, contact the webmaster over there and he'll tell you how to do it and make sure you get on... just takes a bit more effort than to join here or on the old Rocketry Planet site (before it went away).

As for your original question-- Here's what a quick search turned up... a thread on cineroc instructions on YORF... http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=6133

http://www.rcgrabbag.com/archives/estes-cineroc-1970

The Omega (Cineroc booster) instructions on JimZ's website... http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/k-52.htm

Hope this helps and good luck! OL JR

#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
What sort of trouble are you having?? This seems to be a common problem on YORF and people give up... they use an older version of the forum software and were getting bombed pretty badly by spambots so they tightened up the joining stuff a bit (too much most likely). If you have trouble joining, contact the webmaster over there and he'll tell you how to do it and make sure you get on... just takes a bit more effort than to join here or on the old Rocketry Planet site (before it went away).
I get 404 no permission errors when I tried to register, and "You have entered an invalid username or password. Please press the back button, enter the correct details and try again. Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password?"

I've tried contacting the webmaster (twice), but I haven't been allowed to join (no message to me). I did have rocketry mentioned in my message to try to help them realize I'm not a spammer.

As for your original question-- Here's what a quick search turned up... a thread on cineroc instructions on YORF... http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=6133
I've seen that too... that's the thread where they talk about emailing/pm'ing the instructions

Those are the instructions for the K-52P (the payload carrying version of the Omega), but not the RC-8 (combo pac) instructions (if they were any different from the K-52P). The question I have is, was there any difference in the instructions (and decals) in the RC-8 compared to the K-52P.

I found that too. A few of the promising links are 404 . The original Cineroc video has been posted on YouTube, but you don't get a clear image of both sides of the camera to see if it has decals on one side or both sides.

The Omega (Cineroc booster) instructions on JimZ's website... http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/k-52.htm

Hope this helps and good luck! OL JR
I wasnt able to access JimZ's site until today. I found and printed the K-52P instructions from the website today.

Thanks for the try... If nothing else, your post was a concise list of many of the links I've found, so that may help the next guy.

All The Best!
K'Tesh

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#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Yep... already been done... works great...

Scale data for the camera housing itself-- the cineroc camera nosecone... http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=93808&postcount=44
I've seen the first link, but when I got to the image of the double farings with the (gum?) cam(s?) protuding out of it, I kept on moving, not realizing that there was the dimensional drawing later.

I also was able to turn up the Semroc clone and payload section, but I was really hoping to find more info on the original camera's markings.

Now this is something that I didn't see before... And the images of the unboxing of the kit shows what is clearly a decal sheet... I still can't tell if it's got one or two decals on it though (tried viewing it in multiple magnifications only gets worse...) Furthermore, since I haven't been accepted to join YORS, I can't approach any of members, because I can't view the membership and PM them.

That is the thread that quite possibly got this whole thing rolling again for me. Worse, at this very instant, I can see that tbzep is online, but I can't reach him due to my not being an accepted member of YORS.

Oh, and I have a couple more links to share with the next guy...

All of Estes Catalogs (and a few Centuri's) in a PDF file.
http://www.estesrockets.com/customer-service/full-catalog/

For other NOOB's there's also the Gallery. I added images from each of the catalog's from 1970-1975 with the Cineroc, and all the way through 1980 for the Omega.

Thanks again for all the help!
K'Tesh

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#### luke strawwalker

##### Well-Known Member
I've seen the first link, but when I got to the image of the double farings with the (gum?) cam(s?) protuding out of it, I kept on moving, not realizing that there was the dimensional drawing later.

I also was able to turn up the Semroc clone and payload section, but I was really hoping to find more info on the original camera's markings.

Now this is something that I didn't see before... And the images of the unboxing of the kit shows what is clearly a decal sheet... I still can't tell if it's got one or two decals on it though (tried viewing it in multiple magnifications only gets worse...) Furthermore, since I haven't been accepted to join YORS, I can't approach any of members, because I can't view the membership and PM them.

That is the thread that quite possibly got this whole thing rolling again for me. Worse, at this very instant, I can see that tbzep is online, but I can't reach him due to my not being an accepted member of YORS.

Oh, and I have a couple more links to share with the next guy...

All of Estes Catalogs (and a few Centuri's) in a PDF file.
http://www.estesrockets.com/customer-service/full-catalog/

For other NOOB's there's also the Gallery. I added images from each of the catalog's from 1970-1975 with the Cineroc, and all the way through 1980 for the Omega.

Thanks again for all the help!
K'Tesh
You're welcome...

Sorry to hear about the trouble with YORF... Scott is usually pretty good about handling those things... maybe he's got too many irons in the fire right now... gone for the weekend or whatever, ya know?? It is a holiday weekend after all... My recommendation is "keep trying"... YORF is a GREAT resource and worth the effort. As I said, it seems to be a common theme that folks have a hard time joining up over there... but newer software that could handle the spambots better and keep them from "auto-registering" is costly I suppose and thus just making it more "man in the loop" is probably cheaper and easier for them... can't say I blame them...

Glad to help... hope those threads help you out... I'm not an expert on the Cineroc, though there are some on here who could I'm sure answer your questions directly... and I KNOW you could get the answer you need in five minutes or less on YORF...

You DO know that tbzep is a member over here as well, right?? You could always send him a PM and ask him directly..

I said, I've never had a Cineroc; unfortunately they were gone before I got started in rocketry in the mid-80's... BUT, I'd be willing to bet they had decals on both sides... the Astrocam used a very similar "housing" design for the camera nosecone/body, and it had decals on both sides (at least the one I had in the mid-80's did! They were a "chrome-n-black" decal at that!) Like I said, if you can't find out from web sources, then your best bet is to ask someone who had one... which is probably about half or three-quarters of the guys on YORF... they could tell you right off if it did or not...

Not sure about the kit designations and all that-- I don't get into that level of detail on any particular kit, though of course the guys (most of them) on YORF DO! They can tell you pretty much anything you'd want to know... Herb Desind used to collect those things (Cinerocs) by the dozens, even the hundreds, and IIRC Scott bought his entire collection, videos, etc. after his passing on... So yeah, keep plugging away until you get on over there on YORF... If you want a perfect replica of the Cineroc, then that's the place you'll need to be...

Good luck with your project! OL JR

#### K'Tesh

##### OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Thanks Luke,

I'm now on YORF, and I'm in touch with some of the people who have built this kit. I'm starting to get the answers I'm looking for.