claimed 200k ft 2 stage rocket

[Chad]

This has to be on this forum somewhere but i didn't see it. Curt von Delius claims to have hit 200k feet with his two stage PHX4 rocket. I couldn't find a lot of information on the rocket itself but below is a link to another forum where some folks have deduced a few details.

I'm fairly new to HPR so please humor me with this question:

There's doubt about his claimed apogee and it seems there's always doubt when someone claims a very high altitude. I'm aware of limitations in pressure based altimeter and GPS but I can't believe there isn't an official altitude measurement methodology defined by NAR or Tripoli. Is there no official/settled way of measuring high altitude that everyone can agree on? If not, how can any "record" be recorded?

https://forum.ausrocketry.com/viewtopic.php?t=6176

 

[Andrew_ASC]

Tripoli has an official process for the record to be valid. You must conform to guidelines on the Tripoli website under competition rules. For flights over 30k ft only certain GPS units are approved. Plus you need a witness to sign off.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Here’s the link to the earlier thread:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/200k-2-stage-flight.147298/

But it didn’t happen at BALLS 27.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Here is the thread posted on TRF last month:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/200k-2-stage-flight.147298/#post-1803981

 

[JimJarvis50]

Tripoli has an official process for the record to be valid. You must conform to guidelines on the Tripoli website under competition rules. For flights over 30k ft only certain GPS units are approved. Plus you need a witness to sign off.

In theory, the altitude for flights above 30K MSL are to be verified using gps. However, there are flights posted that do not conform to this, so my belief is that the records page is more to document high flights rather than only conforming flights. In that spirit, I would think that the altitude for any "record" flights above 50K meters could be based on combining the available gps with a flight simulation, similar to what I did on my 175K flight. Neither Curt's flight nor mine would qualify for an official record for other reasons, but it will happen before too long, and I would be fine with extrapolation until a commercial gps solution becomes available.

Jim

 

[Chad]

Here’s the link to the earlier thread:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/200k-2-stage-flight.147298/

But it didn’t happen at BALLS 27.

my mistake, i just assumed based on the timing. i'll update my original post

 

[watheyak]

I provided the prepreg for both fin cans in Curt’s rocket. Calling it a work of art is an understatement.

 

[plugger]

There's doubt about his claimed apogee and it seems there's always doubt when someone claims a very high altitude. I'm aware of limitations in pressure based altimeter and GPS but I can't believe there isn't an official altitude measurement methodology defined by NAR or Tripoli. Is there no official/settled way of measuring high altitude that everyone can agree on? If not, how can any "record" be recorded?

Hi Chad,

I'm the OP of that thread and just to clarify I don't have any doubt about Curt's claimed apogee figure other than the specificity of the figure. I think we can all agree that the figure was most likely an estimate based on actual flight data + simulation tweaking after the fact to match the real world data. I just found it confusing that an estimate would be down to single foot increments.

I have no doubt that Curt's flight went well in excess of 200k'.

 

[plugger]

In theory, the altitude for flights above 30K MSL are to be verified using gps. However, there are flights posted that do not conform to this, so my belief is that the records page is more to document high flights rather than only conforming flights. In that spirit, I would think that the altitude for any "record" flights above 50K meters could be based on combining the available gps with a flight simulation, similar to what I did on my 175K flight. Neither Curt's flight nor mine would qualify for an official record for other reasons, but it will happen before too long, and I would be fine with extrapolation until a commercial gps solution becomes available.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Just a heads up, in the thread Chad linked to in his OP OverTheTop posted a commercially available high altitude balloon GPS device that's unlocked and commercially available.

Unlocked GPS Receiver – outputs data to altitudes of over 80,000 m ~ 260,000 ft! Most GPS receivers stop working at 18,000 m ~ 60,000 ft.

https://www.highaltitudescience.com/collections/electronics/products/eagle-flight-computer

 

[Chad]

Hi Chad,

I'm the OP of that thread and just to clarify I don't have any doubt about Curt's claimed apogee figure other than the specificity of the figure. I think we can all agree that the figure was most likely an estimate based on actual flight data + simulation tweaking after the fact to match the real world data. I just found it confusing that an estimate would be down to single foot increments.

I have no doubt that Curt's flight went well in excess of 200k'.

thank you for replying, i'm not qualified to make any judgement period so i hope you didn't think that was the case. In the discussions i've read about altitude records (not just this one) there always seems to be chatter about where the final number came from and it seems to me a standard would be in place which, as another poster pointed out, is the case. Finally, it's not really that important i mean the rocket is incredible and speaks for itself.