CJ's "HOW TO BUILD A DARKSTAR 3 OR ANY GLASS KIT BUILD" STARTS

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by blackjack2564, Dec 6, 2012.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 21, 2013 #391

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hey Jim, It seems that you connect the kevlar to the nosecone directly with a blowline knot? Curious as to why you do this instead of another quicklink?

    Also, (please forgive me if I missed this but I can't find it) I see no mention of vent holes in the airframes. Do you not do this?
     
  2. Jan 21, 2013 #392

    DizWolf

    DizWolf

    DizWolf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    13
  3. Jan 21, 2013 #393

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Savannah Ga

    1. Ya have to tie a knot to the Q-link, so what do you gain? I don't find a need to remove shockcord from NC, so I just tie the cord direct & eliminate the Q-link. Same for end that attaches to Y-harness. By using a bowline knot, it's always easy to undo ,if the need does arise. I just use Q-links at the av-bay.

    2. It's in here somewhere, thread just getting too long to search. I put 1/8 holes in center of payload & again centered in fincan between top of MM tube and upper edge of fincan.


    Edit: thanks Diz
     
  4. Jan 21, 2013 #394

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
  5. Jan 21, 2013 #395

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah, I was just thinking it's easier to remove and replace if and when needed.

    Bowline: http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline/

    or

    Water Bowline? :http://www.animatedknots.com/bowlin...g&Website=www.animatedknots.com&Categ=boating

    Hmm...looks like the difference is just an extra loop. Probably not necessary.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  6. Feb 24, 2013 #396

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Savannah Ga
    Well it's been a long a very fun ride, but it's close to ending this great build thread.

    Previously a few posts back I showed the pre-flight charge making, & packing the recovery gear for flight. The only thing I can think of missing is how I install my tracker & the "twist & tape" method of arming electronics. Sooooo...

    Generally if I have room, the tracker gets installed into the fincan. By doing this, when you reach apogee and the payload separates from the fincan, the tracker signal will"jump". It is no longer inside the airframe and you get a signal increase.

    No big deal on low altitude flights where you can see the event, BUT if you are out of site of the rocket, when the signal jumps......you know the charges fired & that you had a good event! Throughout the descent as the rocket tumbles and flutter, the orientation of the antenna changes and your signal jumps all over the place. Another good reason to use a small drogue, this stabilizes the fall, strings out the recovery gear in a straight line, keeping the antenna oriented in the same direction throughout the entire descent.
    [if the drogue is sized correctly. that's another story]

    Use electrical tape, NOT masking tape to install tracker on shockcord. I place it 2-3 ft down from the av-bay, keeping it clear from getting banged on the way down. Wrap tape around the tracker body & shock cord 2 layers thick. Do NOT tape the antenna to shock cord. [well ya can but I won't] I have seen numerous antennas ripped from the tracker due to some cord entanglement or other various snafu's.... I have not lost an antenna yet after hundreds of flights.

    Disclaimer: once again my method only here, I'm sure many other ways work, just describing a tested and true one that's worked for me.

    Once the wrapping is finished, bend over a tab on tape so you can find the end...when it's time to remove the tracker. Boy o boy finding the little bugger can be a real bear! DSCN1885.jpg

    Finally after inserting the cordage, slide the tracker in last, I fold over the antenna so it's not down in the cords. [Another advantage of full coverage with tape....protects the tracker from ejection charge blast & BP residue]
    DSCN1889.jpg

    Top off the stack with the payload and your done. Power up the receiver when battery is installed & once again when ready to fly, making sure you are getting a signal. More than once Iv'e seen rockets on the pad, we're back at the flight line & some yahoo wants to hold up the rack cause his trackers not putting out a signal. Invariably I'll ask..."Did you turn it on when you installed it "? and the answer is always "No".

    I do place the tracker in the NC many times also. When flying around water & small rockets where there is no room anywhere else. Hence the payload section we did in the NC.
    Twice I have had water recovery where rocket was totally submerged with the NC floating on the surface like a bobber and the Tracker dry inside just happily beeping away.LOl Several other flights I hit a ditch filled with water several feet deep.

    One last thing I have several pieces of masking tape stuck to the side of my receiver....with my frequency #'s written on them. Many times when out hunting you may inadvertently move a button or knob going in the thick brush,getting in & out of car etc. The last thing ya want is to be a mile or 2 out and lose signal cause of this & can't remember you channel settings. AND it does happen trust me. I could tell countless tales of this.

    NEVER remove batteries from tracker till you are back at home base. In the event it gets dropped or misplaced along the way.....as long as its powered, you can go back and find. I've done it & so have others, but we always found them & some have lost theirs by not leaving it in, wanting to save the battery.

    Anybody well versed in tracking will tell you all of the above are cold, hard facts!

    Finally as a courtesy to others, try and find out if anyone else is using the same frequency you are. When back at home base, remove power so you don't interfere with each other. This actually happened at my last launch which was "BlackPearls" maiden flight. He was already on a rack when I powered up and got the Double Beep of death. So I had to untape and remove my tracker, power off till he was through with his flight & recovering it. That set me back an hour and a half....my fault though, I know better.

    So there you go a quick "tracker 101"

    Finally a finished loaded up BlackPearl ready to go!
    DSCN1640.jpg

    Next: on the pad & flight summary of maiden voyage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  7. Feb 25, 2013 #397

    gdiscenza

    gdiscenza

    gdiscenza

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    6
    Sweet looking missile there Jim, but I gotta know....

    What the heck did you do to your arm??

    G.D.

    (oh, and I'll be bringing a fresh roll of the good quality electrical tape to Red Glare....)
     
  8. Feb 25, 2013 #398

    Nerull

    Nerull

    Nerull

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    0
    Double bowline might be more ideal. If you use a standard bowline, always check it before flight - like you would a quicklink. A stopper knot would also be a good idea.

    One of my other hobbies is sailing, which means I use bowlines all the time. They're very strong, very secure knots, but they have one major flaw. When unloaded, it can sometimes work itself loose. Climbers almost never use a standard bowline for this reason, preferring the double bowline or figure eight. A disturbing number of climbing deaths can be attributed to bowlines coming undone or being tied improperly.

    None of these knots are meant for flat webbing, but I haven't seen it become a problem with rocketry loads.

    Climbers will often use an overhand on a bight with webbing. It's very secure, but almost impossible to untie once loaded so not ideal unless you're using a quicklink.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  9. Mar 22, 2013 #399

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hey Jim,

    I'm starting to work on mine so I thought I'd resurrect this thread for some help if you don't mind.


    So, my motor mount assembly is complete and ready to go in. I was looking at your build and this seems to be the one thing you didn't cover. It seems to have happened stealthy in between posts 167-169. I've glued in many a motor mount, but never one as complicated as this with 4 centering rings. Do you have any tips? I can only figure out how to get epoxy on the top and bottom rings. Do you just ignore the center two?

    Thanks
     
  10. Mar 22, 2013 #400

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Savannah Ga
    Think about this......REALLY think about this.:cool:

    Why do you need to glue it in?
    Think of just one reason, then skip ahead to the finished thought & you will see it's already in there....ala Prego

    You did not miss a thing in my build. I did NOT glue in the MM assembly per say. I slide it in, make sure the fins fit , then tack them in. Then inject.

    The recovery harness is on MM tube. No worries about pulling CR out.
    Every CR get's glued to airframe from injecting fillets.
    Every fins glued in place by injecting.

    What purpose does gluing it in do, other than add weight?
    Plenty of glue gets where it needs to be from injecting.

    Do not think I'm being a smart ass, reading this myself, my intended tone does not come through.:no:

    What I'm trying to convey is you must think differently about how building this way differs a great deal from what you are used to. Instead of doing A...then B .........then C.......etc.
    Here you do A.........................then G
    B...C...D.. all happen at once, in between. Saving time, glue & weight.:wink:
     
  11. Mar 22, 2013 #401

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Genius as always CJ. Thanks!
     
  12. Mar 23, 2013 #402

    DizWolf

    DizWolf

    DizWolf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,626
    Likes Received:
    13
    Once I clear off everything on my work bench I'm going to dive into this thing. Gonna be the first time injecting... Really I can't wait as it sounds so much simpler than trying to make other methods work in tight spaces.
     
  13. Mar 29, 2013 #403

    HOBOjr

    HOBOjr

    HOBOjr

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,
    Thanks so much for this build how to. Your attention to detail is
    amazing, I especially like how all of your pictures are sized the
    same so your not having to move the pointer all over the place.
    That being said,I think in post #363 your stated drill size for the
    shear pins should be 5/64 not 7/64, I might be wrong but don't
    think so. Again, great job, I learned so much from this!
    Darrel
     
  14. Apr 25, 2013 #404

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Savannah Ga
    Been on the road......just read this.

    You are correct...thanks for catching it.
     
  15. May 30, 2013 #405

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Desert Rat Rocketeer TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    Goodyear, AZ
    I thought someone had posted about that, and just went back through the last several pages of this thread to find it.
    Thanks Darrel.
    Almost done with my 3" DS build. This thread has been a great source of information, just wish it could be cleaned up so you didn't have to go through all the off topic stuff to find what you need. Maybe just an index with post numbers for specific tasks?
     
  16. May 30, 2013 #406

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Desert Rat Rocketeer TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    Goodyear, AZ
    To reduce confusion regarding the following posts, this edit has been added:

    A complete list of all CJ's posts directly relating to this build thread is now a "Sticky" at the top of the "HPR" section.

    Green Jello (Dave) is responsible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  17. May 30, 2013 #407

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Yeah. It only took about 10 minutes really. I wish there wasn't a post character limit here. Otherwise, it would be best for the first post of each build thread to have the consolidated procedure all in one.
     
  18. May 30, 2013 #408

    Hardline

    Hardline

    Hardline

    Ecstatic and Joyous

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Goodyear, AZ
    I am impressed!
     
  19. Jun 1, 2013 #409

    o1d_dude

    o1d_dude

    o1d_dude

    'I battle gravity'

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Urff
    I've requested that this particular post be sticky'd so we can follow along in the manner of a set of building destructions. :)
     
  20. Jun 1, 2013 #410

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Desert Rat Rocketeer TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    Goodyear, AZ
    I'm working on an index so we can go directly to the post that relates to a specific part of the build.

    1,2 Chop Body tube
    3,4,5 Glueless Nose cone
    6 Vent band
    8,9 Adapter
    10 Sanding and marking MMT
    11 Marking and filing slots in upper CR
    12 Fitting kevlar to MMT
    13 Mark fins and BT for external fillets
    14 Sand fins
    15 Sand BT and file injection holes
    16 Glue Retainer
    17 Glue bulkplates
    18 Tack rear CR for tailcone
    19 Tack 2nd CR
    20, 21 Upper finset CR's
    22 Fit and mark fins
    23 Glue Cr's and recovery harness
    24 Masking tape CR
    25, 26, 27 Refit for snap-ring motors
    28 Eyenut source and fin guide
    29 Tack on rear fins
    30Tack on upper fins
    31, 32, 33 Explanation of tailcone fit


    That's as far as I got tonight. How about some help? Maybe we can get GJ to edit his post with this list......
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  21. Jun 1, 2013 #411

    Pantherjon

    Pantherjon

    Pantherjon

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    7,347
    Likes Received:
    1
    Post has been 'stuck'
     
  22. Jun 1, 2013 #412

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    blackjack2564

    Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Savannah Ga
    I would love to edit this build thread properly for a sticky.
    Problem is..... to do that I must be able to delete all the "chaff" not relating to the build.

    I can only edit or delete my own posts. I do not have access to the rest. Maybe Troj & I can get together on it.

    ThANKS one & all for the Honor.
     
  23. Jun 1, 2013 #413

    4kids49

    4kids49

    4kids49

    Taz

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    1
    As usual, I thoroughly enjoyed your thread and learned a ton of useful, practical stuff. I think that TRF should bestow the title of Professor to you. Professor Crazy Jim has a nice ring to it! Sign me up for classes! Thanks for documenting your techniques. Great stuff.

    Chris
     
  24. Jun 1, 2013 #414

    o1d_dude

    o1d_dude

    o1d_dude

    'I battle gravity'

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,188
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Urff
    Searching madly for the "like" button.

    Oh,well...+1
     
  25. Jun 1, 2013 #415

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Wayco

    Desert Rat Rocketeer TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    3,360
    Likes Received:
    238
    Location:
    Goodyear, AZ
    OK, here's the rest of the index:

    34, 35, 36 Inject internal fillets
    37, 38 External fillets with Proline 4500
    39 Cured fillets and "Stunt double" N/C
    40, 41, 42 Avbay assembly
    43 Glue vent band
    44 Drill vent holes in Avbay
    45 Drill payload rivet holes and index mark
    46 Vent holes in payload and fincan
    47, 48 Avbay sled
    49 to 58 Mounting electronics on sled
    59, 60 Drilling rail button holes
    61 Parachutes and shock cord
    62, 63 Recovery hook-ups
    64, 65 Chute protectors from underwear
    66 Blast shield
    67 Complete recovery system
    68 "Y" harness protection
    69 Avbay flight prep.
    70, 71 Making ejection charges
    72 Switch wire installation
    73 Closing avbay and switch wire
    74 Rivets and shear pins explanation
    75, 76 The "Black Pearl"
    77 N/C shear pins
    78 Key marks and protective tape
    79 Protective tape on shear pins
    80 Install rail buttons
    81 Colored electrical tape
    82 N/C eyenut and packing sequence
    83, 84 Packing chute
    85 Installing recovery system in payload
    86 Tracker installation

     
  26. Jun 1, 2013 #416

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Green Jello

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hey Wayne, I was going to edit my list of links for you but it's gone now :confused:

    Edit: Nevermind. I see what they did. It's been saved as it's own thread now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  27. Sep 10, 2014 #417

    T34zac

    T34zac

    T34zac

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    This may sound like a dumb question, but where does one get a 3" darkstar? Was it only available for a limited time?
     
  28. Sep 10, 2014 #418

    Rrwjr

    Rrwjr

    Rrwjr

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    3
    Not a dumb question. It was part of a special "black Saturday" event a couple of years ago. You would need to see if Tim at Wildman hobbies would want to make another one or post a wanted add here on TRF, someone may sell you there's.
     
  29. Sep 10, 2014 #419

    T34zac

    T34zac

    T34zac

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2014
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Ahh ok. Makes a lot of sense now. I may do that, but I already have a DS jr. Two stage coming in tomorrow. Something like this would be a little down the road for me.
     
  30. Sep 11, 2014 #420

    JDcluster

    JDcluster

    JDcluster

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,265
    Likes Received:
    72
    Gender:
    Male
    I came upon one on e-bay the other day. current bid was around $130.00
    Mine was had after the sale through one of Wildman dealers for about $175.

    A bunch of people hoarded them then, later resold them to turn a quick buck.

    JD



     

Share This Page

Group Builder