Cineroc clone video.

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tbzep

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Cineroc clone video downlink test flight with Omega set up for single stage flight on a 24mm C11-3.

The flight was good, very light roll, video quality was good...much
better than the WMV file I tried to attach. Altitude was 150-200 ft...about like a lightly built Saturn V on a calm day, maybe a bit higher. Decent was super quick because I used a 12 inch chute. It was windy, remember?

If you look closely, you can see four things in the field. Three things are close together toward the southwest (our shadows are
pointing to the northeast). The three objects are my 5 year old
daughter who pushed the button, me taking a still pic of liftoff, and the box I had the video downlink eqipment sitting on. Off to our right, you can see my girl's Jack Russell puppy running around (the moving white spot). :)

The booster was also on its own 12" chute and landed on the
trampoline...east of the pool.

 

gpoehlein

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Harumph!!!

Details, man, details! ;) What kind of camera did you use? And let's see a couple of closeups of the Cineroc clone! Ya can't just keep us hanging!

Greg
 

tbzep

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I used a little spy cam I picked up off ebay. One of these days I plan on getting a higher quality setup, but I wanted to test things out on the cheap first.

The clone is pretty close to scale in size. I turned the nosecone and transition section and whittled out the camera shroud. The little camera and transmitter run on a 9v battery.
 

cjl

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Two stages? I see (or I hope I see) a D12-0 to E9-8 in it's future. I also see you uploading the vid to the forum. OK, enough of the optimism for now. Nice rocket. I've always liked ones with onboard video.
 

tbzep

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It will eventually fly on a D12/D12 combination. I just didn't have the room to go any higher than the C11 with the wind blowing like it was. I want to take it up incrementally higher to see how high it will fly and still get a good video signal. I'll go with a single D12 next, then a D12/C11 two stage, then a D12/D12 two stage. The Omega is a true clone, and won't handle the E9 motors. If the signal stays strong with the D12/D12 combo, I'll probably build another Omega that will handle the E9 in the sustainer.

The Rocketry Forum doesn't accept WMV files, so I couldn't upload it here. It will take AVI's, but the file was much bigger in every other format I tried.

The original post has a link to the video that I finally got up on my webspace. For some reason it wouldn't let me upload via FTP earlier today, but it let me later on.
 

Lugnut

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Cool Video! Did it really come down that quick? That is neat. Whats involved in making a spy cam clone? I want :)
 

SwingWing

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Which type of spy cam did you get and about how much did it cost (incl S&H)? What do you plug the receiver into at the field?
I wanna get one someday!:eek:
 

tbzep

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Yes, it came down that quick! The camera unit is pretty heavy because it was made from Aerotech tubing, has a solid balsa nosecone and transition section, and the camera is powered by a 9v battery. I only used a 12" chute to make sure it didn't drift into the trees, which surround my pasture.

Add to the fact that I flew it on a C11-3 to keep it close and it only hit about 150-200 ft. The Omega came down on a 12" chute also, and it took about three times as long to land. :)

The spycam was just a cheap chinese 800mw unit from eBay. I've had it for almost a year and just now got around to putting the thing in the air. I have another identical one that I've used on an R/C airplane. I think I only paid about $30 for them, but there aren't many listed on eBay now so I don't know what they will end up selling for.

The little receiver has an RCA plug that I plugged into my old 8mm camcorder. Anything that accepts analog signals from an RCA jack will work, including a VCR if you have a way to power it in the field.
 

Omega_D

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I get a bandwidth exceeded error when I try to view the video. I would love to see it!


Edit: I just viewed the video, very cool indeed!
 

tbzep

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I tried zipping the file and uploading it. It's only 1.76mb, but it is too big to post as an attachment.

Just try again later and maybe it will download for you.
 

rokitflite

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These cameras are still readily available on Ebay. Just type in 800mw in the ebay search and a couple of dozen will come up. They are about $40 with shipping from China and will take about 2 weeks to get to you. The only ones that are not sold on Ebay anymore are the ones with audio.
 

tbzep

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Originally posted by rokitflite
These cameras are still readily available on Ebay. Just type in 800mw in the ebay search and a couple of dozen will come up. They are about $40 with shipping from China and will take about 2 weeks to get to you. The only ones that are not sold on Ebay anymore are the ones with audio.

That is correct. I bought a couple of them almost a year ago for about $30 each. Back then there were a few hundred of them listed!
 

rokitflite

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Tbzep,
Have you built any sort of high gain antenna for the receiver?
 

tbzep

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Not yet, but I've been doing a little reading on them. I imagine I'll need one before I try flying it in two stage configuration.
 

artu

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Originally posted by rokitflite
These cameras are still readily available on Ebay. Just type in 800mw in the ebay search and a couple of dozen will come up. They are about $40 with shipping from China and will take about 2 weeks to get to you. The only ones that are not sold on Ebay anymore are the ones with audio.
I'd point out that the camera's on ebay that are not FCC certified are illegal to sell or import into the US. they seem to sell them anyway.

They don't have an FCC certification and transmit on 1.04-1.18 ghz, an airline navigation frequency. they will say receiver 900-1.2 or just plain 1.2, but they put out on 1.04ghz.

Yes, I'm posting this because a sell video cameras, that are legal and I don't like the poachers on ebay selling cheaper knock offs that don't work as well as mine.

Ok I'll stop complaining now.
 

artu

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Originally posted by tbzep

If you look closely, you can see my girl's Jack Russell puppy running around (the moving white spot). :)

Kewl video Tim, and the puppy running is just plain cute.
 

rokitflite

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Artu,
How much are the cameras you sell? Can you compete price wise with the cameras from China? If so I will buy them from you. It has just been my experience that a similar set up available in the states runs 3-4 times the price. Also, I would not call these cameras "cheap knock-offs" I built a simple patch antenna for 10 bucks and I get a very nice (better than a Cineroc) quality picture from some nice high altitudes. The rocket in the attached photo was flown 2-staged D12-0 to E9-6 to around 1500' and the camera transmitted a nice clear picture the entire way. I also had one crash from almost 1000' TWICE and bury itself in the ground several inches and the camera still works fine. They may be on an illegal frequency, but they are not junk! Anyway, I would really prefer to buy LEGAL stuff, so please let me know on the pricing.
 

tbzep

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His $179 rig is made in the same Chinese place as my setup. It has the same receiver casing and same brand name stamped on it, going by the images on the boostervision website. Granted, it is 2.4GHz, so it is legal. With his antenna, should have much better recption too.

Everything else on his website looks much better than the cheap stuff I have. Much, much better!
 

rokitflite

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I dunno,
I can live with $40 stuck in a tree more than I can $179! And how can you call the Chinese stuff a "knock off" if you are buying stuff from the same supplier (ie same case) just on a different frequency and selling it for almost 5 times more? The 2.4 camera (which is legal and only 200mw) can be bought off of Ebay for $30... https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=66738&item=5938553685&rd=1 . A high gain antenna will run you $10-$20.
 

tbzep

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Rocketflite,

The eBay link you provided is for a unit on the same 1.2ghz frequency as my unit...it's not the legal 2.4ghz frequency that Art has over at rocketvision.

I agree, it's hard to justify the difference in price...hence my using the cheap unit for testing. However, if I decide to dig much deeper into video rocketry, I'll buy a legal and higher resolution unit.
 

rokitflite

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Yes,
I agree that there are higher resolution cameras, and you cannot find those on Ebay. For these I went to www.supercircuits.com a few years back. They have some good stuff but it is overpriced. There are 2.4ghz cams on Ebay as well, they are twice as much at $70 but still less than $179 https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48632&item=5734560134&rd=1.
I have had no luck viewing your videos :( the page that comes up keeps saying that the bandwidth has been exceeded. I tried to post some of mine as well and have run into the same problem. By the way I LIKE the Cineroc look you achieved! I tried for a Cineroc/Omega look with mine and made all of the colors the same. Keep the forum posted on your progress!!!
 

tbzep

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I posted the video on alt.binaries.models.rockets too. See if you can download it from there.
 

artu

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Originally posted by rokitflite
I dunno,
I can live with $40 stuck in a tree more than I can $179! And how can you call the Chinese stuff a "knock off" if you are buying stuff from the same supplier (ie same case) just on a different frequency and selling it for almost 5 times more? The 2.4 camera (which is legal and only 200mw) can be bought off of Ebay for $30... https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=66738&item=5938553685&rd=1 . A high gain antenna will run you $10-$20.
It's more then just a diferent frequency. To get certification, you need alot more then just a legal channel. It's more difficult then getting motors certified with the NAR.

something about using phase locked loops instead of free running oscillators, frequency stabilization and those costly FCC tests and custom inspections tends to increase the price of a radio transmission product that gets legally imported into the USA.

Our retail price is $99.00 for the Phase locked looped camera-transmitter cube that transmits on 2.4ghz at 10mw.

The 200mw quoted by the units you are talking about is the amount of power used by the 9 power supply not the output power. Other thing about certification. Without it, you can claim anything you wish. Like the freq. you transmit.

The receiver is a very sensitive PLL design and uses a microwave quality SMA connector for the use of patch and dish antennas, not lossy F connectors. The case is about on the only thing the same.

At 10mw , we get about 900 feet in steady state range down the road point to point. 500 feet is the norm for moving items like small rockets and R/C cars.

Using a 14db antenna we have received our signal in the clear all up and down to 5,600 feet on a L800 powered ISQY Tomahawk.

We also received a signal at apogee on a M1010 powered rocket from 13,800 feet.

Having the TX frequency PLL locked on for the receiver makes more gain then higher power transmissions that may drift about.

I'll think I'll fly my own motors at NAR launches too, they cost 5 times less. No one will know, they never look inside my motor mount.
 

tbzep

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Originally posted by artu

Using a 14db antenna we have received our signal in the clear all up and down to 5,600 feet on a L800 powered ISQY Tomahawk.

We also received a signal at apogee on a M1010 powered rocket from 13,800 feet.
That's a big difference with the 14db antenna! :)
 

artu

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Originally posted by tbzep
That's a big difference with the 14db antenna! :)
Hi Tim. its due to the stability of the phase lock loop on the receiver as well as the tx, the extra range is increadable.

I still can't get over your girl's Puppy running at the tiime your rocket launched in your video. Was he trying to run to the launch pad and barking ?

Ground items to watch in the videos really add to the enjoyment, I really like your video.

Just in case you were curious about the range testing flight, here is the page showing our 13,800 foot test.

https://www.boostervision.com/mgc3.htm

It has stills of apogee, as well as the rocket and camera pod.

In the video, as the rocket passes the 1 mile advertised range, you can see some drops outs when the rockets spin is facing away from the receiving antenna as Claytons rocket spun really fast in this test.

K8XG
 

SwingWing

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Originally posted by artu


Our retail price is $99.00 for the Phase locked looped camera-transmitter cube that transmits on 2.4ghz at 10mw.

Art, Is the $99 for the camera/transmitter only or is it packaged with a receiver too? Does it work with other 2.4Ghz recievers such as X10?
 

artu

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Originally posted by SwingWing
Art, Is the $99 The camera/transmitter only or is it packaged with a receiver too? Does it bwork with other 2.4Ghz recievers such as X10?
It comes with the phase locked loop receiver as well, no tuning needed.

The receiver it comes with is about twice as sensistive as the x10 in the tests I've done, and of course the secret is it has a SMA antenna connector as well.

here is the web page with the full specs:

https://www.boostervision.com/features.html
 
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