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Cim 10b Bomarc

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Prowler901

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I just received my 1/12th scale BOMARC from Empirerockets. She's powered by two 24x70mm motors. I'll start with E's as this is my first experience in the mid power realm. Does anyone here have experience with this particular kit?

Regards,
Todd
 

Micromeister

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Prowler:
Not that Kit, I have a BT-80 (13.25) Scale Bomarc that is a 3 D12 cluster if that helps. Also have Scale data on just about an round you'd like to model.. bomarc is one of my very favorite prototypes:D
 

KermieD

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I don't have advice, but please keep us appraised and place a kit review in the appropriate forum. I've seen those listed and am curious to excited about them.
 

sandman

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Prowler,

DO NOT FORGET the nose weight. That is not a particularly stable design without it.

sandman
 

Prowler901

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Micro, those are sure good lookin' models. How did you get the metallic finish on the ramjets? I did a search on the internet last night looking for pics of different paint schemes. Mostly just saw the gray AF version, and the black as you have. Were there any other schemes?

Kermie, I'll be sure to write a review as a go along on this one.

Sand, you betcha ;) She came with some very hefty nose weight. I'd hate to lose this bird due to a silly mistake like that.

Regards,
Todd
 

sandman

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Prowler,

In my mini clone kits I included some Monocote Trimcote chrome for the silver on the rear of the ram jets and the tail. Only about $5 for a 6" by 36 sheet.

Very thin and very effective. Just be careful it scratches real easy.

sandman
 

Micromeister

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Prowler:
Sandman is right on the adhesive backed trim monocoat is one source. If you have access to a 3m vinyls dealer or Sign supply house in your area. 3m #5400 Chrome silver or Avery A-1842-s Chrome mirror are a bit thinner.

As far as color schemes the Black and white schemes were for all the TEST vehicles, both US and Canadian air force production colors were the Grey/White patterns. Tom P and I have both heard rumors of a RED test vehilce but to date neither of us has been able to turn a photo or even a conformation of this round.
 

Prowler901

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Thanks for the info guys :) My Mom works for a sign company back home in Colorado. Perhaps she can hook me up with some of the other materials. You know, I thought I had seen a red one too. Which was what I was kinda looking for. But, my searches turn up negative for that as well. Perhaps I'm just thinking of an old drone used for AA and SA missile testing. So, barring info on that I'll go with the black schemes. They are pretty cool. I especially like the gold nose cone on yours, Micro. What kind of details do you have on those birds?

I'll try to gets some pictures of the parts and pieces this weekend and post them. I actaully have 2 BOMARCs from Empire. The other is his 1/24th scale version. Also very nice looking.

Regards,
Todd
 

Micromeister

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Prowler:
The Nose cones are Copper metallic, I was trying to sort of simulate the phenolic raddomes, Copper isn't a really good match but it does make for a very nice looking model. Looks pretty cool with the smoke coming from the ramjets just before pushing the button on the 3 D cluster.
 

CTimm

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Originally posted by Micromister
Prowler:
Also have Scale data on just about an round you'd like to model.. bomarc is one of my very favorite prototypes:D
I scanned quite a few photos of the Bomarc from a few archives I've visited while vacationing. Data consists of the old Model Rocketry mag info plus a couple of line-drawings courtesy Dan French via Boeing Co. Email me and maybe we can add to each others files. Theres even a "Miss Bomarc" pic!!!
 

Micromeister

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Sound's good Tim:
I have most of my photo archive on dics. I have a copy of ever piece of info the national air & space libriary has, as well as copies of all their Photo's. and a full set of pics from the Air Force Museum's display Gary/white example.
Prowler heres a pic of my 124.55 scale micro-max powered Bomarc #14 note the lack of other I.D and marking which was typical on the early IM-99a flights.
 

CTimm

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Originally posted by Micromister
I have most of my photo archive on dics. I have a copy of ever piece of info the national air & space libriary has, as well as copies of all their Photo's. and a full set of pics from the Air Force Museum's display Gary/white example.

I've never had good results photographing the grey bomarc.
Bad lighting, bad background, bad display position.
And its grey like the sky!!!

The Bomarc at Eglin was equally tough to shoot with the BRIGHT sun all the time. One trip I got there early enough to beat the
haze burnoff to get some decent pics.

The museum at the cape is another tough place to get decent pics as well. Dang sun.

I think theres 80 or so photos I scanned from the USAF Museum,
also scanned some 4x6's from Eglin Armament Museum when they first rolled out the Bomarc that "was" displayed for years.
Not currently displayed now. Probably being restored on base to avoid environmental hassles with residue runoff on public property. I also have a slew of photos of the Bomarc there when it was on display and weathered a bit.
Also took a bunch of pics of the rail launcher that was out behind the museum.
A few of the photo scans from the archives look like roll-outs from Boeing plants. Bazillion tiny stenciling everywhere!!!!

Chris
 

Micromeister

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DeeeeeRaTs!! you really had me excited for a minute!!
Yea! i've seen this radiation drawing before. but hadn't connected it with the rumored Red color scheme, You may very well be correct. Oh well guess we'll have to stick to those nasty black & white or Grey & white models:D

I think I've uploaded this lift off pic of a USAF grey vehicle before, but I think its a great shot.. Not to good for scale data, except of colors. but a way KEWL pic.
 

PunkRocketScience

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I felt the same way...One of the guys that I am working with on a 4" diameter bomarc thought he had come up with a blue painted one, but it way just the reflection of the sky color on the black body... I'm thinking of trying to design my own red scheme combining the black/copper scheme with that of a jayhawk!
 

Micromeister

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yeah after Tom Pastrick and I spent the last OMG! 19years looking, I'm beginning to believe we've seen all that was done color wise to these great missiles. Some kind of a non-scale "just for fun" paint scheme may be worth looking into.
I've toyed with the idea of a 4" dia. Gliding Bomarc, possibly even R/C controlled in the BT-101 body tube size. I actually started to build the beast about 8 years ago. Stopped the project when told I was only going to succeed in crashing the model since I had no R/C traning at the time.. Still don't and my elevator control mechanism would likely not work well for free flight:) I'm just getting into RC/RG so maybe in the near future i'll resurrect the project.. I look at that 4" hollowed out nose cone every time I go into the shed:( Still looking at keeping the model under 2.5 lbs and powered by a 5 D12 cluster:D Maybe some day....
 

Prowler901

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I'm thinking about that one myself. I think it would look real nice in Red and White. I'd keep the same scheme as the black and white, but I'd replace the black with a nice medium dark red. Not sure about the nose though... hmmm...

Regards,
Todd
 

PunkRocketScience

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Do any of you know of a site with scale data on the bomarc? Good plans, blueprints or the like? I find lots of photos, but very few of them have anyone holding a ruler in them.... I find one of the guys on my build team has a wild idea to try and build one of these things based on a 8" tube... and airstart the ramjets... Gotta admire his adventurousness... Thanks for any info you can direct me towards.

Todd
 

teflonrocketry1

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PunkRocketScience

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Hey Bruce-

I would love to know how you would sim a bomarc in v7. Infact, I just sent an e-mail to Tim Van Milligan to that effect. I have read your article on tip mounted fins. Would you use a similar technique for simming the wings and stabs?

Thanks for the suggestion about NARTs. I'll probably order a set of blueprints from them.

T-
 

teflonrocketry1

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Attached is the simulation file I created for the Estes Bomarc Kit # 0657. This is the best I can do with RockSim 7 simulating the Nacelles on the pylons with cones on them. I hope Tim Van Milligan at Apogee publishes the Side Pod simulation article I sent him so I don't have to explain how I did this simulation!

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055
 

PunkRocketScience

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Thanks, Bruce. That is a beautiful rendition of the Estes kit. I am pleased to see that I was working along the same kinda lines that someone much more skilled with the nuances of rocksim created.

Here's the file that I am roughing out (only a first draft) based on the desires of my build team to go big or go home.... This thing is a beast...
 

teflonrocketry1

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Here is my most accurate and detailed simulation of the Estes Bomarc (Kit # 0657) for RockSim Version 7. RockSim has a bug that will not draw the 3D veiw properly with the Nacelles under the wings.

Wow! 12 feet long with a 5 foot wingspan and a 8 inch diameter body tube, 45 pounds on a 3 K motor cluster; I would love to see this one fly! It looks like your design is still in the planning stages, I noticed the slightly undersized nosecone and the nacelles are undersized. Are you really planning on just using a 54mm motor tube for the nacelles or something closer to scale? Do you want me to make a simulation for you with the wings and stabilizer fins attached above the body tube as on the real Bomarc? I would suggest mounting the three motors as a central cluster. If you really want to use the motor configuration as pictured, it might be best to build a smaller model and test out its flight characteristics before risking a flight on 3 K's. You need to determine how off axis thrust affects the design in case the three motors don't come up to pressure at exactly the same time.

I can't recall any upscale Bomarc's that flew well. Most were too nose heavy, and the ones I remember best required shovel recovery!

Hope this helps,

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055
 

Prowler901

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I can't recall any upscale Bomarc's that flew well. Most were too nose heavy, and the ones I remember best required shovel recovery!
ACK!!!:eek: That's not what I want to hear! :p Well, I guess I will find out how this 1/12 scale beasty will work. The guy from Empire Rockets who designed it seemed to think his prototypes flew well. We shall see ;)

Thanks for your rkt files, Bruce. :)

Regards,
Todd
 

Micromeister

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I can't recall any upscale Bomarc's that flew well. Most were too nose heavy, and the ones I remember best required shovel recovery!


Dang Bruce:
What kind of "Upscales" are you referring to? I've been flying my 13.25 upscale for a good while now with only a single misphap with a bad igniter installation...Other then that it has perfectly striaght boosts to about 250 to 300' on the 3 D12's than settles back to earth on a 36" hemi chute.
I am curious, the one's that needed shovel recovery were they straight up and down models or Glide recovery? A buddy of mine built a BT-80 (13.25 scale) version the has a great flat glide without any additional elevator. We set it up to eject the pod and forward nose weight just like the BT-55 model Estes kit. perfectly straight boost, nice flat glide. it does have a pretty short glide duration.. Bomarc's glide sorta like the shuttle.

Prowler:
The Estes kits are only semi-scale. the nose cones are as teflon pointed out a bit short and the nacelles are not at all scale. attached is a drawing done from the best Boeing drawing I could find. it is one of the later ramjet configurations but the intake coweling and intake compressor spike are fairly close to those used on the earlier "straight pipe" IM-99a's
Hope this helps a little
 

Micromeister

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Here's what the ramjets look like almost ready for paint.
 

Prowler901

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Thanks for the drawing and pics Micro. The model I have just has the straight pipes. But, I'm considering modeling the ones you have done.

Regards,
Todd
 

Prowler901

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Here's a picture of the parts for my 1/12 scale CIM-10B from Empire Rockets.
 

PunkRocketScience

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Hey Micro-

In the upscales that you have seen, have the ramjets been used? We are debating whether or not the ramjet supports would be strong enough to not shear off if made of plywood...

Anyone have any experience with larger motors (approx. H-K range) being placed on stand offs?

Thanks for any info you can give.
 

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