CiCi 2 Edmonds two stage black powder gap stage

[BABAR]

Finally found the plans, built this a long time ago.

Don’t know if they’ve been there all along or were recently posted

Here’s the site

https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/
Scroll to bottom and click “other stuff”


https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/stuff.htm
Then you’ll see the plans, pick CiCi2

Options for

HTML


https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/edmonds_cici_2.htm
Or PDF

https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/other/edmonds_cici_2.pdf

 

[BABAR]

Copied onto adhesive label paper

Cut the lower stage motor mount tube a bit big

 

[kuririn]

They were part of a load of plans that were recently posted there.
Looking forward to your build.

 

[BABAR]

The plans are copied in legal size.

Makes the long pieces a bit tricky. There is a “tick” mark to even them up.

I double printed (set my printer to “left side up”) so I could get both ends of the rear segment with the “notch”

 

[BABAR]

Okay, had some problems lining up the long pieces, because the website scans were not set up to print on regular 8.5x11 paper, so redid them.
Not pretty, I am using Corel Paint Pro and I find it relatively user hostile to editing and rotating, but it keeps things to scale. Whenever I try to open the files in Windows 10 paint program the scale goes all fooey on me. I have copied in rules, so the scale SHOULD be right.

The main thing was getting the "Notch" in the one long fuselage piece to show up on both pictures, as I wasn't sure the "tick" marks were right.

By the way if you print these you need to set your printer to set the upper left corner as the edge. They still won't fit the whole picture on eight and a half by 11 inch paper using narrow margins, but the important parts will fit. The rest are just background extraneous Parts which I didn't bother to edit out again due to my unfamiliarity with the drawing program.

Recommended print them out on Plain paper first using a low-resolution low ink setting just to make sure they'll fit before committing them to adhesive paper

 

[BABAR]

They were part of a load of plans that were recently posted there

You're doing?

 

[BABAR]

If you use the originals, draw the tick lines across the long segments.

Also the scans I put in will include the notch. Particularly on this piece it helps alignment

I marked the flat side, this will help the alignment as well.

I am not sure if there is a bit of angle between the forward and rear wings of the booster.

 

[BABAR]

Instructions have parts with 3/32, 1/8, and 3/16.

I am going with the 3/16 for the booms, 1/8 for the fins.

 

[BABAR]

Forgot the motor mount joint for booster. Was going to integrate it into the fuselage, but the grain direction is different, probably for a reason.

I may cut it out a little simpler than drawn

 

[Rktman]

Very cool that you're building this! I'm a big fan of Edmonds' innovative and original designs. Looking forward to following along and hopefully getting to watch a video of it's maiden flight.

 

[Rktman]

Copied onto adhesive label paper

Cut the lower stage motor mount tube a bit big

Are you using the adhesive label stock to paper your balsa surfaces for strength, or just as cutting templates?

 

[BABAR]

Just templates.

Looking back it would have been easier to just get some cardstock and cut templates to trace (and re use if desired, especially for boo boos.)

Bonus is you only need to print one vertical stab template

 

[BABAR]

Cut out pieces, with stick on paper templates.
Doubles the motor mount, first one I cut out of 1/8” by mistake.

Fuselages and motor mount are 3/16”

 

[Rktman]

Cut out pieces, with stick on paper templates.
Doubles the motor mount, first one I cut out of 1/8” by mistake.

Fuselages and motor mount are 3/16”

Getting sharp-edged corners for the slots that the tabs fit into looks tough, especially when you hand-cut them and the tabs have to jigsaw in so precisely. Unless you've mastered a method I'm unaware of (other than a very steady hand and the patience of a Medieval scribe)?

 

[BABAR]

Edmonds himself says don’t do any airfoiling.

I think that mainly applies to the lifting surfaces, so I will so some on the vertical stabs and fuses and motor mount spar

Also since I don’t have a laser cutter, while the tongue in groove would be great, aside from the motor mount attachment (spar that attached the booster tube to the booster glider segment), I will skip the detailed cuts.

Because the vertical stabs are so off center, alignment on those with be critical. Looks like a job for balsa fillets.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Just curious, why is it called "2 stage"?

 

[kuririn]

Just curious, why is it called "2 stage"?

It uses a booster motor and a sustainer motor.
The .pdf link above is for the Cici, here's the correct link:
https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/other/edmonds_cici_2.pdf

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Much thanks. I saved it, even though "boost gliders" = "lost rockets" in small-field, hilly, tree-covered Western PA! It's just a cool design.

 

[BABAR]

It uses a booster motor and a sustainer motor.
The .pdf link above is for the Cici, here's the correct link:
https://www.spacemodeling.org/jimz/other/edmonds_cici_2.pdf

Thanks.
Fixed.

 

[Aeronerd]

VERY cool glider! Planning on building the simple Cici version myself as soon as I can get my hands on some decent balsa.

 

[BABAR]

Wing and canard weights (with the balsa fillet/cheaters) before dying

 

[BABAR]

Fillet shot

 

[BABAR]

Dye

 

[BABAR]

Well maybe it's just because they died is old but this is not what I think of as fuschia colored. The left is straight from the bottle, the right is dilute 3 to 1 with hot water which is so much less than the instructions recommend.

 

[BABAR]

Try #2

 

[Rktman]

Well maybe it's just because they died is old but this is not what I think of as fuschia colored. The left is straight from the bottle, the right is dilute 3 to 1 with hot water which is so much less than the instructions recommend.

If you're considering sponging on the dye vs immersing your parts in it, use alcohol instead of water. It'll prevent warping of the balsa. Other benefits: far less clean up mess (no container of dye/water mix to dispose of--preferrably not in a porcelain sink or toilet--it'll permanently stain them), and you use only as much dye/alcohol mix as absolutely necessary.

 

[BABAR]

If you're considering sponging on the dye vs immersing your parts in it, use alcohol instead of water. It'll prevent warping of the balsa. Other benefits: far less clean up mess (no container of dye/water mix to dispose of--preferrably not in a porcelain sink or toilet--it'll permanently stain them), and you use only as much dye/alcohol mix as absolutely necessary.

I broke two of the rules of craftsmanship and experimentation.
One, I think I learned from @neil_w , always try something new on a scrap piece of balsa.
Two, from my dad, always read the instructions, which you referred to in a prior post from Apogee
https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter17.pdfAnd did yourself
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/rumblebee-c-build.146534/#post-1794801
So, liquid dye says to mix with hot water, you are saying use alcohol? I am guessing you don’t heat the alcohol (1. Likely no matter color you intended, you would end up with small charcoal grey pieces of balsa and a large hospital bill, and two, the alcohol would likely boil off pretty quick.)

I also think brush-on just isn’t going to work, you gotta let it soak in.

The piece I dyed I put into my big paper page book in wax paper, so I don’t think warpage will be a problem.

I may retry this, except I will make cardstock re-usable templates, and I won’t put the balsa fillets on the lifting surfaces until after the dye is dry.

 

[Rktman]

I broke two of the rules of craftsmanship and experimentation.
One, I think I learned from @neil_w , always try something new on a scrap piece of balsa.
Two, from my dad, always read the instructions, which you referred to in a prior post from Apogee
https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Newsletter17.pdfAnd did yourself
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/rumblebee-c-build.146534/#post-1794801
So, liquid dye says to mix with hot water, you are saying use alcohol? I am guessing you don’t heat the alcohol (1. Likely no matter color you intended, you would end up with small charcoal grey pieces of balsa and a large hospital bill, and two, the alcohol would likely boil off pretty quick.)

I also think brush-on just isn’t going to work, you gotta let it soak in.

The piece I dyed I put into my big paper page book in wax paper, so I don’t think warpage will be a problem.

I may retry this, except I will make cardstock re-usable templates, and I won’t put the balsa fillets on the lifting surfaces until after the dye is dry.

Use alcohol at room temp. I'll pour just enough dye to color everything into a disposable cup and dilute it with alcohol (no particular ratio, only enough to ensure the shade I want) and use those large square cosmetic cotton pads or cotton balls to transfer the mixture in long even strokes to the balsa.

I try to cover both sides as quickly as possible, then lay it on foil to dry, flipping the pieces every 10 - 15 minutes. If the color isn't dark enough (it tends to lighten a bit when it dries) just apply more of the dye solution. Easy peasy.

 

[BABAR]

with some help from @prfesser , I figured out how to use the manual feed slot on my laserfax to print up templates on card stock. The originals on the JimZ site are too large for standard paper, BUT they still don't cover the entire length of the fuselage. I have redone them, these are PNG files, which wikipedia says

Yes. Portable Network Graphics (PNG, officially pronounced /pɪŋ/ PING, more commonly pronounced /ˌpiːɛnˈdʒiː/ PEE-en-JEE) is a raster-graphics file format that supports lossless data compression.

Anyway, these print out fine on 8.5x11 card stock. And they stay the right size (I have included at least a couple of inches of ruler on each image to check scale.)

I may play with these a bit more, but I figured I would share what I have.

 

[BABAR]

Not a lot of consistency as far as added weight.

The small canard which I dyed both sides picked up 0.1 g.

The card which I only dyed basically half of one side didn’t pick up any weight at all.

The small wing I Sharpied actually weighed less after putting the ink on them before. That makes no sense.

The larger one that I used the Sharpie on weighed 0.9 g more.