Chute Release vs Cable Cutter

[BDB]

I LOVE the Jolly Logic Chute Release. I own two of them, and use them on nearly every flight--even for 4" rockets that are designed for traditional dual deploy.

I have seen several people on TRF using cable cutters, particularly with high performance flights. What are the advantages of one system over the other?

Jolly Logic Chute Release: https://jollylogic.com/products/chuterelease/
Tinder Rocketry cable cutter: https://www.tinderrocketry.com/piranha-line-cutter
Archetype Rocketry cable cutter: https://aeroconsystems.com/cart/launch-recovery/cable-cutter-by-archetype-rocketry/

 

[crossfire]

I would like to see how ematch is wired to altimeter. How is wired kept from pulling or get damage at deployment?

 

[tfish]

This is how I do mine...this is a 54mm min dia.







Tony

 

[watheyak]

I'm a cable cutter apologist. I've used them since the original Archetype versions. I just started using Tinder Mako cutters and love them.

As far as wire atrachment, strain relief is the name of the game. I zip tie the e-match wire to the recovery harness, and make sure the e-match wire is quite a bit longer than the Kevlar line. I also do a loop around the zip tie for less chance of slipping.

 

[BDB]

View attachment 448767I'm a cable cutter apologist. I've used them since the original Archetype versions. I just started using Tinder Mako cutters and love them.

As far as wire atrachment, strain relief is the name of the game. I zip tie the e-match wire to the recovery harness, and make sure the e-match wire is quite a bit longer than the Kevlar line. I also do a loop around the zip tie for less chance of slipping.

Have you ever tried the JLCR? I’m curious about the pros and cons of the different systems.

 

[Voyager1]

I have used both successfully. However, I prefer the JLCR due to its simplicity of use and the fact that it’s non pyrotechnic. Additionally, you don’t require the external connection back to a deployment altimeter as it’s fully self contained.

The JLCR is more expensive, but I believe it’s more reliable when used correctly. I have had cable cutter failures due to incomplete or no cable tie severing, particularly if the blade on the piston gets a bit blunt, or the charge doesn’t ignite due to an e-match failure.

Having said all that, I am a regular redundant dual deployment user and don’t often use my JLCR, but it’s very handy to have when operating with mid power motors on small fields, and when you wish to keep your preparation simple.

 

[mikec]

Cable cutters are smaller than the JLCR, and I would argue more physically robust.

 

[watheyak]

Have you ever tried the JLCR? I’m curious about the pros and cons of the different systems.

Ah yes, I should have mentioned that whole bit as well.

I have about five flights on one until it got lost due to operator error. It works great for it's intended purpose. Both cable cutters and the JLCR have their niche. The JLCR is great if you have no other electronics and want to add dual-deploy. Motor eject + JLCR is very simple and reliable.

If you already have a dual-deploy capable altimeter, a cable cutter is smaller. and probably more reliable and rubust. I say probably because there is definitely a learning curve for how you set prepare and let them up. (the Tinder Mako removes a bunch of the guesswork and pitfalls, by the way. Super neato.)

So it depends on what you want. Do you want super easy DD with motor eject? Or do you want small and high performance with a learning curve?

 

[BrendanH69]

I'm a JLCR owner, and user, with about 16 flights conducted with one in use.

I'm also a multiple JLCR loser, having lost a total of 3 in action now in the last 2 years - One to mid air flaming CATO that burnt through the tether, 1 to high altitude opening & wind-drift, and 1 to operator error. At A$190 each PLUS shipping costs from USA, this is too tough to sustain.

I really like the JLCR and it's simple use and concept, particularly as it avoided the need to buy and use black power and similar products.

However in the last 12mths all HPR stuff here requires us to have a state explosives licence (more $$$) just to buy our HPR motors and fly them. This is now a watershed moment; now buying BP is not such a blocker to alternate methods such as traditional BP dual deploy (electronics initiated) or BP initiated cable cutters.

Frankly, I've decided to move away from the JLCR as it's retail cost is just too costly to sustain the loss risk. I've decided to look to the traditional DD and cable cutter options to see if I can get a system the is well under the A$100 mark, closer to A$60 if possible.

 

[Kelly]

This is how I do mine...this is a 54mm min dia.

Tony, is that a deployment bag, or just a wrap, in those photos? It seems with that arrangement (no drogue) it would be tough to get the chute out of a bag.

 

[tfish]

Tony, is that a deployment bag, or just a wrap, in those photos? It seems with that arrangement (no drogue) it would be tough to get the chute out of a bag.

Kelley, That bag is actually the bag that comes with the Aerocon 60" chutes. The chute in the photo is a DIY 40" 3/4 oz rip stop. It pretty much will fall out of the 'bag'. I also set my apogee to 1500' or better to give things time to get out, inflate, slow down and regain directional tracking too.

For bigger rockets I use the 'pant leg' of old fire dept uniform (nomex) pants...works pretty good too.

You do have a very good point..make sure your chute can get out of it's wrapping or bag easily..

Tony

 

[dpower]

I've used both, and generally prefer the Chute Release, so now have 2, and sold my Archetype Cable Cutter set. The advantage of the CC is it can be used with an existing altimeter for full DD without an AV bay. The advantage of the Chute Release is simplicity, no cleaning, no BP, and no tiny o-rings and pistons to deal with. I have 3 HPR birds without AV bays that if I want to do full DD, I used to use the CC, so now need a Chute Release in addition to the main altimeter. Fewer wires to get tangled, but need to remember to turn on the altimeter and Chute release. Tradeoffs and personal preference.

 

[vahpr]

This is how I do mine...this is a 54mm min dia.
Tony

Hi Tony, Hope you're well! Just want to tell you that the pics of your setup are the most helpful I've seen, a really good guide for how to rig this. I have a few of those Aerocon bags, they seem perfect for it. I think I mentioned at Balls I want to start doing this on sustainers, and still have that line cutter you shared too. I think the only mod I'd make is adding a drogue, but that's easy with your setup. It's definitely different than regular "east coast" dd or even Tether/Arrd type recovery but as in all things, I'm sure repetition, practice and regular use will reduce my head scratching JerryO

 

[kenstarr]

This is fantastic information. I have a JLCR and am strongly leaning towards getting the a cable cutter as well after launching my Der Ed Max and hiking over a mile with a 30lb rocket on my shoulder.
Ken

 

[prfesser]

I'm a JLCR owner, and user, with about 16 flights conducted with one in use.

I'm also a multiple JLCR loser, having lost a total of 3 in action now in the last 2 years - One to mid air flaming CATO that burnt through the tether, 1 to high altitude opening & wind-drift, and 1 to operator error. At A$190 each PLUS shipping costs from USA, this is too tough to sustain.

I really like the JLCR and it's simple use and concept, particularly as it avoided the need to buy and use black power and similar products.

However in the last 12mths all HPR stuff here requires us to have a state explosives licence (more $$$) just to buy our HPR motors and fly them. This is now a watershed moment; now buying BP is not such a blocker to alternate methods such as traditional BP dual deploy (electronics initiated) or BP initiated cable cutters.

Frankly, I've decided to move away from the JLCR as it's retail cost is just too costly to sustain the loss risk. I've decided to look to the traditional DD and cable cutter options to see if I can get a system the is well under the A$100 mark, closer to A$60 if possible.

I've seen a design for a simple homemade cable cutter but don't recall where. Two empty pistol cartridge cases of a size that one is a slip-fit into the other. A 9 mm or .38 caliber, and a S&W .40 caliber cartridge work well. Brass or stainless steel, not aluminum.

If memory serves: slide the 9 mm inside the .40 (primer ends out) and drill a hole sideways the whole way through both cases, with a good sharp bit. The hole is to be large enough to slip the cable to be cut through the holes. The edges of the holes provide the sharp edge needed to cut the cable.

Ematch with a bit of BP taped in place--I don't recall how much. Slide the wires of the ematch through the primer hole into the 9 mm case so the match head and BP are inside. Plug the primer hole of the .40 case. Fit the two together with the drilled holes aligned. Slip the cable to be cut through the holes and wrap it around your recovery burrito.

When the match lights the BP the cases fly apart and cut through the cable. Edges of those holes could be ground sharper for reliability. And I don't recall how the device was to be attached to the rocket. Though it's cheap enough to make if you lose one.

Hope this helps. Anyone remember where this was posted online?

Best,
Terry

 

[thehemi]

I'm new to HPR (recent L1 cert). I was looking at a JLCR, but it basically costs as much as my rocket. Since no one mentioned anything else, I assume there's no cheaper options without going to CCs.

My next rocket will hopefully have full DD, but was looking for a cheap "bolt-on" solution in the meantime for my existing rocket. I guess investing in the JLCR is going to be my KISS solution.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[rharshberger]

I'm new to HPR (recent L1 cert). I was looking at a JLCR, but it basically costs as much as my rocket. Since no one mentioned anything else, I assume there's no cheaper options without going to CCs.

My next rocket will hopefully have full DD, but was looking for a cheap "bolt-on" solution in the meantime for my existing rocket. I guess investing in the JLCR is going to be my KISS solution.

Thanks,
Scott

Jolly Logic is the cheapest solution of its type (actually the only one of ITS type). A cable cutter, still requires a deployment altimeter to fire the ematch for the cable cutter, total cost including battery will probably be more than the Jolly Logic Chute Release.

 

[crossfire]

I'm new to HPR (recent L1 cert). I was looking at a JLCR, but it basically costs as much as my rocket. Since no one mentioned anything else, I assume there's no cheaper options without going to CCs.

My next rocket will hopefully have full DD, but was looking for a cheap "bolt-on" solution in the meantime for my existing rocket. I guess investing in the JLCR is going to be my KISS solution.

Thanks,
Scott

Depending how high your L1 is going to go do you really need a JLCR. Just bring main out at the top. That would really be KISS

 

[thehemi]

Depending how high your L1 is going to go do you really need a JLCR. Just bring main out at the top. That would really be KISS

My L1 was completed with motor ejection. I'm just looking for ways to limit the drifting on recreational launches while I work on building a DD rocket next.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[crossfire]

My L1 was completed with motor ejection. I'm just looking for ways to limit the drifting on recreational launches while I work on building a DD rocket next.

Thanks,
Scott

The JLCR is a great product but it has a learning curve to it. Unless you can get a few flights in before your L1 attempt I would still go with out it. Wait for a day with less wind.

 

[rharshberger]

People arent reading what the OP wrote.....he already IS L1 certified, the cert is over and done. He is asking about which route to go for chute deployment control cable cutter or JLCR.

 

[Handeman]

People arent reading what the OP wrote.....he already IS L1 certified, the cert is over and done. He is asking about which route to go for chute deployment control cable cutter or JLCR.

Actually the OP is already L2 and has several JLCR, he's asking about cable cutters.
@thehemi kind of redirected the thread to ask about cable cutter vs. JLCR from the perspective of not having used either one.

 

[rharshberger]

Actually the OP is already L2 and has several JLCR, he's asking about cable cutters.
@thehemi kind of redirected the thread to ask about cable cutter vs. JLCR from the perspective of not having used either one.

Okay, then I am out of line then, sorry.

 

[jahall4]

For those that maybe lurking, that have had issues with the JLCR on large chutes (like I did), there is a solution. Developed after looking at some inflight footage and narrowing down what could cause the chute to foul. To read a little bit about the history of the Recovery Sled and why it works give this link a read. You can make your own out of cardboard or even a composite, but for cost and durability the heat formed polycarbonate version I sell can't be beat.

BTW... on occasion I use a JLCR and a sled along with traditional Dual Deploy to deploy a backup main, tribunal deployment. Here is a video of one such flight:

 

[gdjsky01]

Hi Tony, Hope you're well! Just want to tell you that the pics of your setup are the most helpful I've seen, a really good guide for how to rig this. I have a few of those Aerocon bags, they seem perfect for it. I think I mentioned at Balls I want to start doing this on sustainers, and still have that line cutter you shared too. I think the only mod I'd make is adding a drogue, but that's easy with your setup. It's definitely different than regular "east coast" dd or even Tether/Arrd type recovery but as in all things, I'm sure repetition, practice and regular use will reduce my head scratching JerryO

This is how I do mine.



I use both. Like others have said, the CR is great for rockets with no deployment altimeter. Like ones you've built already. I have only used the CR a few times so far. It is expensive if lost. CC has never failed me but I have had a chute slip out at apogee once. That was my fault not the CC.

CC have parts to replace. Mine, I replace the piston every 3 or 4 flights. They are not expensive, but a consumable. BP has to be bought. I bought a can of BP years and years and YEARS ago. And it is still half full!

CC has to be cleaned after each use. The CR is bigger. However there is no clean up. I guess each has there place.

 

[patbunn]

I have enjoyed using a JLCR with a streamer on higher altitude rockets. The streamer is deployed buy the ejection charge and the JLCR deploys the main. The streamer is a 8 foot nylon one and it stabilizes things nicely and the maln chute deploys at 500 feet.

 

[cwbullet]

Both are very dependent on technique to be successful.

 

[tfish]

a short photo video of how I set up my cutter system.



Tony

 

[SolarYellow]

It's also worth searching on hot wire cable cutters. There are a few different threads out there. Basic version is to use a piece of nichrome to cut through some thin, ~1/16" elastic that's tying the chute.

My build pile includes working out the details of this to fit in a BT-50 tube, driven by a Quark. Might even get the cutter bit to fit in a BT-20. I've thought about building a BT-20 HOJO just to make the point. One could also make a little sled that was self-contained where the Quark and a small LiPo are on the chute burrito. I think that would fit in a BT-55 OK. I'm going to wait until I have it working to bug @cerving about making a version of the Apogee with different software to fire as the second phase of dual deployment. Not that the $5 difference in price really matters, but easier soldering isn't nothing.