Chute Release or Dual Deploy?

Jdog13

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I'm starting my first rocket that needs some type of dual deploy because of its altitude. I know that I can get a chute release and that will fit, but why should I get that over a normal dual deploy altimeter. An easy mini altimeter is cheaper than a CR and it would eliminate the need for a separate altimeter with the chute release. Also, if I chose the dual deploy option, where could I get the ejection powder online? I found those charge canisters, but no powder on every shop I checked at online. Any advice on which to chose is very appreciated. Thanks.
 

rharshberger

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The JLCR will be easier to move from rocket to rocket than a traditional Avionics Bay set up. As for 4F black powder there are a couple of online dealers in the US, but the HazMat charge and minimum orders do apply with them, Graf & Sons and Powder Inc. are two online vendors of 4F aka black powder priming powder, FWIW I have never ordered from either. Check your local Cabelas, Muzzleloader supply shop etc, make sure and ask for 4F powder, its normally used for priming flintlock muzzleloader pans, if 4F is not available then 3F will work nearly as well. The JLCR also will not have as steep a learning curve as traditional Dual Deploy.
 

Jdog13

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The JLCR will be easier to move from rocket to rocket than a traditional Avionics Bay set up. As for 4F black powder there are a couple of online dealers in the US, but the HazMat charge and minimum orders do apply with them, Graf & Sons and Powder Inc. are two online vendors of 4F aka black powder priming powder, FWIW I have never ordered from either. Check your local Cabelas, Muzzleloader supply shop etc, make sure and ask for 4F powder, its normally used for priming flintlock muzzleloader pans, if 4F is not available then 3F will work nearly as well. The JLCR also will not have as steep a learning curve as traditional Dual Deploy.

I'm 18, so I don't think a gun store could sell me powder like that. I was thinking Aerotech or someone sold small quantities just for rocketry, but if not I'll just go with the chute release. Thanks.
 

tim cubbedge

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RCS sells small quantities of BP.
https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Ejection_Charge_12-Pack/p1577809_16501630.aspx

Have you checked with your local on-site motor vendor? Both vendors I deal with will sell small quantities of BP as well a full 1 lb. tins. Also, when using the JLCR, you need to be careful that your motor delay will be long enough to ensure your rocket reaches apogee before the motor delay expires. Have seen a few flights where flyers neglected to take that into consideration thus the need for a DD altimeter.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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If you are using reloads, use the black powder that comes with it. You can also dump the powder out of single use as well. But that will only get you halfway there for traditional DD.

Don't know where you are but pretty sure you can buy BP at 18. Just don't mention rockets, explosive, ejection charge or the like. If asked, it's for an old muzzle loader.

I use both setups depending on the rocket. If I can get traditional DD in a rocket I'll nearly always go that route. Less to lose if something goes wrong. One launch I had three flights planned using the chute release. The first flight hung on a power line until the next day. So I flew a lawn chair all day.
 
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Andrew_ASC

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Sportsman's warehouse and Outdoor hunting stores stock lots of BP. Sportsman's always has a great selection of all reloading devices unlike the other outlets. MidwayUSA online may also carry stuff, but HAZ gonna HAZ. Look into an FCC license if you want the GPS route but $$$$$ honestly a JLCR helps on windy days for single or dual deploy rockets by lowering the chute deploy alt so rocket don't drift as far. Eventually you will want a tracker someday, but some investment there in ground stations. Even a non FCC tracker beats no tracker. It won't be long till you figure out MD L-1 multistages even vanish from sight completely. Even single stage H-I MD will lose visual for several seconds with realistic wind drift of half to full mile.
 

Zeus-cat

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With the JLCR you don't need an avionics bay and you can use it in any rocket big enough for the JLCR. With DD you need an avionics bay, the rocket will need to separate in two places, rivets or some other means to secure the nose at apogee, etc. DD is a big step, but a very satisfying one. You can use Pyrodex or other smokeless powder (available at any gun shop, Walmart, etc.), but it is much more finicky that BP. BP is the way to go if you can. As others have said, look for muzzle loader shops or a club as they will have BP. My wife's former boss does some muzzle loading and I got some from him.
 

Bat-mite

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One downside of JLCR is that you are still depending on the delay grain for apogee deployment, whereas an altimeter will deploy at apogee regardless of delay. Upside, as others have stated, is that it is portable, requires no BP, and is cheaper over the long run, provided you do not break or lose it.
 

Jdog13

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RCS sells small quantities of BP.
https://www.rocketmotorparts.com/Ejection_Charge_12-Pack/p1577809_16501630.aspx

Have you checked with your local on-site motor vendor? Both vendors I deal with will sell small quantities of BP as well a full 1 lb. tins. Also, when using the JLCR, you need to be careful that your motor delay will be long enough to ensure your rocket reaches apogee before the motor delay expires. Have seen a few flights where flyers neglected to take that into consideration thus the need for a DD altimeter.

Thanks for the link to that website. The 12, 1.4g charges would cost $20 shipped to me. I'm making a small 2.2" rocket so I'm guessing I would use less than the full charge. I'm still debating whether to get the CR or not, but this was a good find.
 

afadeev

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I'm starting my first rocket that needs some type of dual deploy because of its altitude. I know that I can get a chute release and that will fit, but why should I get that over a normal dual deploy altimeter. An easy mini altimeter is cheaper than a CR and it would eliminate the need for a separate altimeter with the chute release. Also, if I chose the dual deploy option, where could I get the ejection powder online? I found those charge canisters, but no powder on every shop I checked at online. Any advice on which to chose is very appreciated.

Eventually, you will use both methods.

Since this is your first rocket, DD should be way beyond your comfort zone.
Keep it simple, for now, with JL CR.

If you are having fun with this hobby, you will eventually start building rockets with DD. And GPS trackers (highly correlated with the need for DD).
And figure out where to buy 4F black powder, the igniters, and how to test the proper amounts to 4F to go into your deployment charges.

Just not for the first rocket!

a
 

viciouspeanut

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I have not personally used a chute release but most of my club has one and it seems like a great option for higher flights on older rockets that don't have av-bays or short rockets like V2's etc.

I've only done one DD flight and it was a good accomplishment and I feel it opened me up to a new world of HPR. I was leary of going Lvl 2 before DD, but now I don't fear the higher levels.

Both are great options and DD is something you will want to learn, but don't be fooled by $50 altimeters, you need black powder, a launch controller to test, e matches, etc. It adds up fast.
 

Jdog13

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Eventually, you will use both methods.

Since this is your first rocket, DD should be way beyond your comfort zone.
Keep it simple, for now, with JL CR.

If you are having fun with this hobby, you will eventually start building rockets with DD. And GPS trackers (highly correlated with the need for DD).
And figure out where to buy 4F black powder, the igniters, and how to test the proper amounts to 4F to go into your deployment charges.

Just not for the first rocket!

a

Well this isn't my first HPR rocket, it's just the first that is going to go too high to use apogee ejection. It's just a matter of which is more effective cost wise and practically. Thanks for the advice.
 

Jdog13

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I have not personally used a chute release but most of my club has one and it seems like a great option for higher flights on older rockets that don't have av-bays or short rockets like V2's etc.

I've only done one DD flight and it was a good accomplishment and I feel it opened me up to a new world of HPR. I was leary of going Lvl 2 before DD, but now I don't fear the higher levels.

Both are great options and DD is something you will want to learn, but don't be fooled by $50 altimeters, you need black powder, a launch controller to test, e matches, etc. It adds up fast.

Good point
 

Buckeye

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Altimeter-based dual deployment requires a lot more design work, ground testing, and preparation. In return, you get data, precision, and more versatility. 90% of my HPR flights are with altimeter deployment, but I dread the prep needed for each flight. I might cave in and get a JLCR one of these days.

"Dual Deploy" is an action, not a recipe with specific ingredients. JLCR is dual deploy, just like altimeters, cable cutters, tethers, etc. A better distinction is "pyro" vs. "non-pyro" deployment.
 

grouch

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If the JLCR was available when I started dual deploy, would have gone that direction only. Using it is a pleasure. One of the largest benefits is I can use it on my whole fleet. As far as being limited to the motor's delay, that's not an issue. Since the chute stays bundled at ejection, being off a second or so doesn't lead to the zippering that normal chute deploy would if the timing is off.

I really enjoy using it but I prefer simplicity over complexity. I also enjoy high altitude chute deploy combined with tracking. To me something is inherently cool about a rocket under chute.


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Jdog13

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If the JLCR was available when I started dual deploy, would have gone that direction only. Using it is a pleasure. One of the largest benefits is I can use it on my whole fleet. As far as being limited to the motor's delay, that's not an issue. Since the chute stays bundled at ejection, being off a second or so doesn't lead to the zippering that normal chute deploy would if the timing is off.

I really enjoy using it but I prefer simplicity over complexity. I also enjoy high altitude chute deploy combined with tracking. To me something is inherently cool about a rocket under chute.


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Yeah I have only heard good reviews about the chute release. Another thing I'm considering using is the egg finder gps. It only costs $90 and should have enough range for my purposes. If anyone has experienced with that I would like to know if it works well.
 

Eric

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Yeah I have only heard good reviews about the chute release. Another thing I'm considering using is the egg finder gps. It only costs $90 and should have enough range for my purposes. If anyone has experienced with that I would like to know if it works well.

I use several Eggtimer / Finder products. They work great. I love building them. Get an Eggtimer TRS and you can have pyro dual deploy and GPS tracking for well under 200. Or get a Quark for $20 and dual deploy. I just finished an Eggtimer Quantum today, and its a nifty little piece.

But I also love my stratologger CF, and dozen others.

True pyro dual deploy is a more complex setup, and that's what makes it exciting for me. In the end, they will cost you the same amount. Or Less. Or more. Or who knows if you get into both and end up with a dozen options.

So yes. I love an altimeter deployment. But I won't deny that I bought my second JLCR last weekend. It is the beat thing ever. Complete game changer to higher altitude flights.

But I love them all and I would recommend that you get a
 

jd2cylman

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But I love them all and I would recommend that you get a

Dood... You're keepin me in suspenders here... Get a what??? :wink:
The JLCR is awesome. I highly recommend getting one. Then after a while, get a Missile Works RRC2+. Under $50.00 and easy to set right out of the box.
As always, there are as many ways to do things as there are people giving the advice. Start with the JLCR, then when you get a rocket that the motor delay isn't long enough for safe motor deploy, it's time for an altimeter.
 

Eric

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Dood... You're keepin me in suspenders here... Get a what??? :wink:
The JLCR is awesome. I highly recommend getting one. Then after a while, get a Missile Works RRC2+. Under $50.00 and easy to set right out of the box.
As always, there are as many ways to do things as there are people giving the advice. Start with the JLCR, then when you get a rocket that the motor delay isn't long enough for safe motor deploy, it's time for an altimeter.
Lol. I can't pick just one. But you have a great point. My JLCR goes in half my flights. But when your rocket needs more delay then the longest delay... Its time for an altimeter deploy.

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T-Rex

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My launch site is restricted to 2000ft (2500 with DD). Being the laziest man on the planet, I hate to walk. All of my launches in the last year or so have been with a JLCR when it fits. I have only had 1 failure with the CR, and that was user error.
I have a couple of altimeters that I purchased but have yet to get around to using one. Maybe this summer I'll give it a go, we'll see.
Only you can decide which way to go on your journey. If you think that BP is too expensive or difficult to get, then the JLCR gives you a good option.
 

OverTheTop

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I usually run single-ended dual deploy. It is what I prefer. As has been said there is great data from altimeters, but it is harder to implement and run.

I have not used a JLCR but they seem like quite a successful device.

How about an altimeter for apogee deployment, then the JLCR for the final fluff.

Listen to the advice, then choose how YOU want to fly :)
 

Jozef

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Dood... You're keepin me in suspenders here... Get a what??? :wink:
The JLCR is awesome. I highly recommend getting one. Then after a while, get a Missile Works RRC2+. Under $50.00 and easy to set right out of the box.
As always, there are as many ways to do things as there are people giving the advice. Start with the JLCR, then when you get a rocket that the motor delay isn't long enough for safe motor deploy, it's time for an altimeter.


X2.....
 
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