China's Chang'e 4 lunar mission

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Winston

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China's Chang'e 4 lunar mission:

Chang'e 4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang'e_4

...an orbiter, a robotic lander and rover. Chang'e 4 will be China's second lunar lander and rover. It was built as a backup to Chang'e 3, as Chang'e 2 was to Chang'e 1. Following the successful landing of the Chang'e 3 mission, the configuration of Chang'e 4 will be adjusted to meet new scientific objectives.

The Chang'e 4 mission was first scheduled for launch in 2015 as part of the second phase of the Chinese Lunar Exploration Program but the adjusted objectives and design of the mission imposed delays...

Since Chang'e 4 is planned to land on the far side of the Moon, CNSA will first launch the Queqiao communication relay satellite to Earth–Moon L2 point on 20 May 2018 to relay the signals between the lander/rover and the Earth station

The lander and rover will be launched six months later. It will be the first ever landing on the lunar far side, an unexplored region of the Moon called South Pole-Aitken Basin, a vast basin in the southern hemisphere of the far side which extends from the South Pole to Aitken crater.
 

aerostadt

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There are really some good ideas here! The USA can build Mars rovers. Why not build a lunar rover, especially to investigate possible water resources at the lunar poles? Instead the US just cancelled a would-be lunar rover plan. Also, why put a manned station so far out at a Lagrangian point, when a robotic orbiter will do? It seems like the Chinese have got the right idea! Someone in the WH and NASA needs to wake up!
 

Winston

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From the moon’s far side, a radio receiver will listen for ancient clues to the universe’s origin

https://qz.com/1281622/from-the-moo...en-for-ancient-clues-to-the-universes-origin/

Besides keeping the future lander in touch with earth, the Queqiao is also carrying a new scientific instrument built by Chinese and Dutch scientists.

A radio antenna, which is being transported with Queqiao, will be stationed some 60,000 km behind the moon. Scientists are hoping that the radio antenna will reveal clues about the early universe, the time after the Big Bang when stars began to form from an ocean of hydrogen.

The antenna is designed to catch ancient signals with frequencies below 30 megahertz, Falcke told Quartz ahead of the launch. Signals occurring in those frequencies might help to study the universe’s pristine beginnings, which scientists often call its dark ages.

“Underlying the strong humming sound from the Milky Way, there are some emissions from the early phase of the universe and it will recur at certain frequencies,” said Falcke. “If you don’t have much background noise you may be able to see some certain frequencies and that tells us something about the universe. It requires an extremely quiet environment.”

The far side of the moon can provide that environment, said Falcke. So far only a set of ground-based antennas in Australia has claimed to detect signals of the ancient dark matter, Falcke said, which could offer a reference point to what the NCLE catches.
 

aerostadt

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aerostadt

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Mushtang

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According to wikipedia this is expected to land on the far side of the moon tomorrow. Anyone have any links to follow the landing progress?

I've looked at all I can find is that we're supposedly able to follow it on China television's English website, www.cgtn.com but as of right now they don't have anything about it.

I just found this article that suggests the landing will happen at 1:00 am GMT, which I *think* means 8pm tonight??
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/8101134/china-probe-landing-dark-side-of-moon/
 
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georgegassaway

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Update - after some confusion involving tweets it had landed , but the tweets were quickly deleted, it is now official:

"China lunar rover successfully touches down on far side of the moon, state media announces"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/health/china-lunar-rover-far-moon-landing-intl/index.html

Beijing (CNN)In an historic first, China has successfully landed a rover on the far side of the moon, Chinese state media announced Thursday, a huge milestone for the nation as it attempts to position itself as a leading space power.

China's National Space Administration (CNSA) landed the Chang'e 4 lunar probe at 10:26 am Beijing time on Thursday, in the South Pole-Aitken Basin which is an impact crater, China Central Television (CCTV) reported.
It made its final descent from a landing orbit 15 kilometers above the moon's surface.
State media reported the rover transmitted back the world's first close range image of the far side of the moon. No other details were immediately available.
The announcement came shortly after state media outlets China Daily and China Global Television Network (CGTN) deleted posts on social media proclaiming the mission a success, sparking widespread confusion as to whether the probe had in fact had made touchdown.
No explanation was given as to why the tweets were deleted. On social media, observers speculated as to the cause of the apparent backtracking, with many wondering if the mission had experienced a temporary upset, or whether it was a simple case of state media jumping the gun ahead of the official announcement.
The far side of the moon is the hemisphere that never faces earth, due to the moon's rotation. It is sometimes mistakenly referred to as the "dark side of the moon," even though it receives just as much sunlight as its earth-facing side.
The Chang'e 4 lunar mission lifted off from the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in Sichuan province on December 8 and entered the moon's orbit four days later, according to Chinese state media.
Once safely on the moon, the lander will tackle a long to-do list, including conducting the first lunar low-frequency radio astronomy experiment, observe whether plants will grow in the low-gravity environment, and explore whether there is water or other resources at the poles.......

[for more, use this link:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/health/china-lunar-rover-far-moon-landing-intl/index.html
 
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georgegassaway

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First photo from surface after landing:

 

Winston

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Yes, it's easier to make history by choosing to do something other countries weren't particularly interested in doing. The most important science that could be done that would make the far side effort the most valuable won't be done because the proper instrumentation isn't on-board. Also, as much as I'd like to see the images, as I've learned more about China's behavior in many areas, the less enthusiastic I am about anything they do in space.

China makes history by landing on the far side of the Moon

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/china-makes-history-by-landing-on-the-far-side-of-the-moon/

According to state media, a Beijing-based control center commanded the spacecraft to begin the landing procedure at 9:15pm ET Monday (10:15am, Tuesday, local time), from an altitude of 15km above the lunar surface. During an 11-minute descent, Chang'e-4 slowed its speed from 1.7 km/s to nearly zero before it landed in the Von Karman Crater in the South Pole-Aitken Basin. This is in the mid-southern latitudes of the Moon on its far side; it should offer important scientific information about Earth and the early Solar System.

The 1.2-ton lander is made from backup components of the Chang’e-3 mission, which China's space program landed on Mare Imbrium on the near side of the Moon five years ago. Shortly after landing, Chang'e-4 returned a photo of the lunar surface by way a relay satellite in lunar orbit, named Queqiao, meaning Magpie Bridge.

Soon—if not already—the lander will deploy a rover named Yutu II (Jade Rabbit II). The 140kg rover will collect high-resolution images, and Chinese scientists designed it to study the lunar surface and area just beneath the surface, as well as the radiation environment on the far side of the Moon.

It is also notable that China's state news service provided no live coverage of Monday night's landing attempt. Many of the country's launches—and more difficult efforts in space—are only reported after the fact, when they are successful. This echoes the Soviet approach during the space race in the 1960s, when many of their spaceflight activities took place covertly, while NASA had its successes and failures covered in real time.

This may reinforce the concern of some lunar scientists and spaceflight experts, who warn that if we want to see the Moon developed under Western norms of freedom and openness, then NASA and US businesses had better lead the return and development of the Moon during the coming decade.


Their military plays a major part in their space program, BTW.

NASA may be a civilian agency, but China’s space program is unquestionably a military endeavor
7 Mar 2018

https://thenewsrep.com/100485/nasa-...rogram-is-unquestionably-a-military-endeavor/

These deep rooted ties to China’s national defense endeavors are actually the reason China is not represented on the International Space Station, despite the longstanding cooperative relationship between political opponents Russia and America aboard the orbital platform. Both NASA and Roscosmos work independently from the military arms of their own governments, even as those governments amass weapons platforms near one another’s borders in the latest continuation of a near century of staring matches.

A clear sign of just how entrenched in national defense China’s space program comes from the recent announcement that, for the first time, China will begin recruiting civilians to join their astronaut corps.
 

georgegassaway

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Really don't need for someone to p*** into the punch bowl. Keep your Ayn Rand-istic political crap outta here.

A photo of the rover after moving off the lander:

 

Winston

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Really don't need for someone to p*** into the punch bowl. Keep your Ayn Rand-istic political crap outta here.
The Soviet Union was a police state greatly hampered by their economic system. China is a sophisticated technological police state enabled by capitalism with a leader who has recently appointed himself as occupying that position for life. If China becomes the dominant force in the world, something it has a vastly greater chance of becoming than the Soviet Union, that is a very bad thing. As a result, I see them as an enemy and that affects my perception of their accomplishments. If doesn't for you, sorry.
 

Ez2cDave

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A photo of the rover after moving off the lander:

QUOTE]

To all of the Apollo "naysayers" out there in the world . . . Notice that there are no "stars in the sky" in that pic, either !

Dave F.
 

Ez2cDave

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The Soviet Union was a police state greatly hampered by their economic system. China is a sophisticated technological police state enabled by capitalism with a leader who has recently appointed himself as occupying that position for life. If China becomes the dominant force in the world, something it has a vastly greater chance of becoming than the Soviet Union, that is a very bad thing. As a result, I see them as an enemy and that affects my perception of their accomplishments. If doesn't for you, sorry.
Winston,

As the product of ultra-Conservative parents and growing up during the Cold War, I share your sentiments regarding Communism, Socialism, & Progressivism.

"Politics", whether we "like" it or not, is what our Society has come to be based on in the 21st Century, divided & polarized.

At any rate, Kudos to China for their successful mission !

Dave F.
 

aerostadt

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I applaud the Chinese for what they have done, especially their scientists and engineers. This is something we should be doing rather than sinking a lot of money in a manned "lunar" orbital space station that is an economical inefficient use of limited funds. Even though I applaud the Chinese technological achievement, I, too am wary of their increasing economical and technological power with no internal democratic checks and balances. Again, I recommend the book, "The Hundred-Year Marathon", by Michael Pillsbury for a sobering assessment of the increasing Chinese economical might in the world.
 

Mushtang

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"Politics", whether we "like" it or not, is what our Society has come to be based on in the 21st Century, divided & polarized.
But "politics" on this forum are "against the rules" and if you get political George will call you out and point out that you're breaking the forum rule against it.

He's fine with posting political stuff himself and when HE does it it's okay. Remember that.
 

Ez2cDave

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But "politics" on this forum are "against the rules" and if you get political George will call you out and point out that you're breaking the forum rule against it.

He's fine with posting political stuff himself and when HE does it it's okay. Remember that.
I first met George in 1975, at NARAM-17 . . .

I am a VERY "political" person, but I choose to limit my comments on forums like this . . . On others, not at all.

Dave F.
 
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