Chiggy Von Richthofen

techrat

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I am considering a scratch build from the long lost and mostly forgotten "Space: Above and Beyond" TV show. As the show only lasted one season, and I don't even think the actors even went on to other TV shows, it's already in the dustbin of history. But one thing did stand out from that show, and it was an episode where the enemy developed a new fighter and got their hottest pilot to fly it, and it started killing off patrols. Known only as "Chiggy Von Richthofen" it was a variation of the tri-fin fighter craft seen in other episodes.

Building the flying model might be tricky as the fins would have to extend the entire length of the body tube and even go past the nose cone. But since spools can fly, I'm willing to bet I could make this work.
 

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mjennings

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I remember that show! Fox had a few we'll try this but not give it a budget/ a time slot/ make it hard to follow due to interupting the schedule with sports in that time frame.
 

Daddyisabar

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I am waiting for @Daddyisabar to start discussing nose weight and tractors motors…..
It's the only way that design will fly going forward! No nose weight, all must be canted tractors. Maybe for once we will see one of these "I have a dream" sci fi TV rockets built. Go for it! The Dark Arts of model rocketry await.

Flying it backwards would be super easy, barely an inconvenience...
 

jqavins

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That's going to be... challenging. The CP is going to be practically inside the nose cone (well, nose bulb) to no amount of nose weight would make it stable. Good luck, and keep us posted.
 

lakeroadster

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I am waiting for @Daddyisabar to start discussing nose weight and tractors motors…..

I second that. It's the perfect candidate for canted tractor motors at the upper fin tips....

That's going to be... challenging. The CP is going to be practically inside the nose cone (well, nose bulb) to no amount of nose weight would make it stable. Good luck, and keep us posted.
Don't think nose weight... think "tip of the fins" weight.
 

lakeroadster

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Quick Open Rocket simulation for proof of concept. Techrat's CVR

Getting the fin weights to disguise into the fins and preventing fin flutter will be challenging.

Edit for clarity: This is a single motor rocket... no tractor motors. The round "things" on the fin tips are ballast.

Should be an interesting rocket @techrat. Looking forward to your build.
:awesome:

CVR Photo Shoot.jpg CVR.jpg
 
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techrat

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I have an idea to increase the fin area -- looking at the 3D model I orginally posted, I could do fin at the edge, right angle to the Tri-Fin. In other words, each fin gets a top, like the old Photon Disruptor estes kit. It becomes a flying fin, with almost no body tube and that bulbus nosecone. Right now the Open Rocket sim is assuming 3 fins but we're really talking 6. And if I angled them slightly downward, towards the tail, the captured air pressure might make it stable as it goes up.
 

lakeroadster

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I have an idea to increase the fin area -- looking at the 3D model I orginally posted, I could do fin at the edge, right angle to the Tri-Fin. In other words, each fin gets a top, like the old Photon Disruptor estes kit. It becomes a flying fin, with almost no body tube and that bulbus nosecone. Right now the Open Rocket sim is assuming 3 fins but we're really talking 6. And if I angled them slightly downward, towards the tail, the captured air pressure might make it stable as it goes up.

It has plenty of fin area, what it needs is forward fin tip weight. Any weight you add behind the CP works against stability.
 

BABAR

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I second that. It's the perfect candidate for canted tractor motors at the upper fin tips....


Don't think nose weight... think "tip of the fins" weight.
Not a fan of MAIN motors at tips of fins under any circumstances, too eccentric thrust if one doesn’t light. IMO only role for outboard motors (waaaaay off midline) is small auxiliary motors usually for effect, with a strong dominant (preferably lit) central motor.

Weighted wing tips? Interesting thought, but I fear severely off center mass (even if balanced) is not going to be good.

In the spirit of “ If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”, you could used the Estes Starship Enterprise solution, in this case put a clear plastic tube in front of the cockpit of this rocket, with a nose weight in front of the tube (maybe disguised as a targeted ship or asteroid?)

Sort of the reverse of your X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

If you REALLY want to cheat, this solution can make anything fly, and doubles as a display stand.

 

BABAR

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Quick Open Rocket simulation for proof of concept. Techrat's CVR

Getting the fin weights to disguise into the fins and preventing fin flutter will be challenging.

Should be an interesting rocket @techrat. Looking forward to your build.
:awesome:

View attachment 539534 View attachment 539537
You may be right, I guess if balanced the rocket doesn’t “care” if the mass is inboard or outboard. THRUST on the other hand is a big factor since you can’t guarantee all motors will light at same time, factory variability in thrust or burn time also may cause fecal turbine interaction.

I still think canted tractors on the forward cockpit with rear eject would be most “ true to life” practical solution.
 

jqavins

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It has plenty of fin area, what it needs is forward fin tip weight. Any weight you add behind the CP works against stability.
The issue as I see it is that so much of the fin area is so far forward. More fin area, in the form of T tips, would help if they only go part way up. That is, if they're only back in the area that fins belong.
 

lakeroadster

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Not a fan of MAIN motors at tips of fins under any circumstances, too eccentric thrust if one doesn’t light. IMO only role for outboard motors (waaaaay off midline) is small auxiliary motors usually for effect, with a strong dominant (preferably lit) central motor.

Weighted wing tips? Interesting thought, but I fear severely off center mass (even if balanced) is not going to be good.

In the spirit of “ If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying”, you could used the Estes Starship Enterprise solution, in this case put a clear plastic tube in front of the cockpit of this rocket, with a nose weight in front of the tube (maybe disguised as a targeted ship or asteroid?)

Sort of the reverse of your X-Wing and Tie Fighter.

If you REALLY want to cheat, this solution can make anything fly, and doubles as a display stand.


Meh, not a fan of any of that. To be clear, the Open Rocket sim shown above is a single motor rocket... no tractor motors. The round "things" on the fin tips are ballast.
 

Daddyisabar

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I always tell the newbies that the learned books say widely spaced motors are a hallmark of poor rocket design. I then show them pics of some of my rockets and get funny looks. It's just an ignition issue! Then it is time for the sour puss face like Tom Hanks made at the Golden Globes when Ricky Gervais told his first joke in the opening monolog. My only question is would the canted tractors look good enough? Answer correctly to prevent your eyes from turning red like a Sith!
 

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