CHAD staging

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Vajraman

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Hi,

Can anyone explain what CHAD staging is? I kept reading about it in reference to midpower flights in the UK, but have no idea what it is.

Thanks in advance

Dean Hammond
TRA 10419, L1
 

Karl

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The EMRR glossary lists CHAD staging as :

CHAD :
Slang term meaning Cheap and Dirty. Most common usage is CHAD-staging, in which a booster motor is attached to the rear of a rocket motor in a single-stage rocket.

You usually find CHAD staging in Estes / Quest motors. For example, taping a D12-0 to the bottom of a D12-3/5/7 ect.
 

RoyGreen

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CHAD = CHeap And Dirty staging.

I.e. creating a two-stage rocket out of a single stage rocket, simply by cello-taping a booster motor directly to the normal motor of the rocket.

The single stage rocket obviously has to be very stable as there will be the mass of a booster stage, but no extra fins.

There is obviously an extra safety concern as the booster motor will be falling on its own, without the tumbling action that fins would provide. Some people manage to place a tiny streamer somewhere below the rocket, attached to the booster motor, so that there will be some sort of recovery system, but I've never seen one that is all that effective.

Anyway, the extra boost *can* be very effective.
 

JRThro

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I flew my first CHAD staged flights, and indeed my first staged flights of any kind, this past Saturday.

First flight was my Commander X3 kitbash, with a C6-0 booster cellophane taped to the end of an A8-3. Flight was perfect! The booster motor hit the ground close enough to me that I heard it hit, so it was pretty easy to find. This rocket is long and skinny, so I knew it would still be stable even w/ the booster motor added to the rear. I probably walked about 75 yards to recover the rocket, which came down on a 12" chute.

Second flight was an Estes X-Prize Eagle (EDIT: not a Thunderstar as I erroneously stated before this edit), with a C6-0 booster taped to a B6-4. This flight was less perfect in that the rocket went almost horizontal about 50 feet off the ground. The 'almost' part was that there was still a little upward vertical component to the flight. Staging went well, but 3 of the 6 shroud lines were stripped off the parachute at ejection since the rocket was moving quite fast. Recovery was okay with no other damage. Not to state the obvious or anything, but I should have checked stability before I flew this one.

In summary, CHAD staging is easy and works well! I used the shiny Scotch tape in the red packaging, so I think I'm safe in using the term 'cellophane tape' for the tape I used.
 

stevem

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Second flight was an Estes X-Prize Thunderstar
isn't that rocket a 2 engine cluster? did you chad stage both??
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by JRThro
Staging went well, but 3 of the 6 shroud lines were stripped off the parachute at ejection since the rocket was moving quite fast.
This points out one of the other considerations for selecting upper stage motors; you need a slightly longer delay charge. Estes highlights (or at least, they used to) some of their motors by marking them with purple ink and using delay intervals that are a couple seconds longer than the 'single-stage' counterparts.

Yes, you better do something to check stability with CHAD boosters. Especially with the drought in this part of the country and the grass fire hazards, we don't need a horizontal cruise segment and a ground ejection.
 

loopy

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Originally posted by stevem
isn't that rocket a 2 engine cluster? did you chad stage both??
Yeah - what he said!!!
 

JRThro

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Originally posted by Loopy
Yeah - what he said!!!
It was an X-Prize Eagle, and I've fixed my original post.
 

stevem

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thanks for clarification!

however, now that you got me thinking...hmmmm, double-CHAD staging on the Thunderstar??! maybe have to try that

BTW - the Estes X-Prize Eagle flies great as a 2 stage using Gap staging!!
 

JRThro

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Originally posted by powderburner
This points out one of the other considerations for selecting upper stage motors; you need a slightly longer delay charge. Estes highlights (or at least, they used to) some of their motors by marking them with purple ink and using delay intervals that are a couple seconds longer than the 'single-stage' counterparts.

Yes, you better do something to check stability with CHAD boosters. Especially with the drought in this part of the country and the grass fire hazards, we don't need a horizontal cruise segment and a ground ejection.
Well, no amount of delay in the world would have kept the parachute shroud lines from being stripped off in this case, but your point about longer delays is well taken.

As is your point about not causing grass fires.
 

jflis

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Originally posted by stevem
thanks for clarification!

however, now that you got me thinking...hmmmm, double-CHAD staging on the Thunderstar??! maybe have to try that

BTW - the Estes X-Prize Eagle flies great as a 2 stage using Gap staging!!
So long as you don't tape the CHAD motors to *each other*, CHAD-staging clusters works well. Biggest problem is that you are adding a LOT of extra mass, so stability becomes a concern. Also, you have more than one motor casing droping from the sky.

My experience is that the motors stage at such a low altitude that the motors tend to stay clustered around the launch pad so it isn't that big a concern.

My biggest CHAD was a 4 motor cluster (total of 8 D motors) in my Dudley Do-Right :D
 

cydermaster

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My largest, and only, CHAD stage was my LOC Starburst on 2xD12-0 & 2xD11-P --> 2xE9-6s at K-Lob last year (see this thread).

OMG! Was it fantastic or what!!!!!


Heres a photo of the 2xD12-0s sellotaped to the E9s. The D11-Ps were then stuck (one to each D12-0) using epoxy.
 

cydermaster

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And yer tiz a photo of the tail of my Starburst, on the pad, all 6 motors installed and QuickMatch-ed up!

A few mins later this thing flew like a beauty to give me my fave personal flight to date!



(no in-flight photos, I'm affraid) :(
 

andysrockets

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/me confirms that cyder's chad staged starburst was fantastic flight (and surprisingly fantastic weather!). Even I was surprised how well it flew.
No in-flight pics either... just one of the rocket with cyder in the frame too.
 

arthur dent

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Ok OK Dan were did you get the moving smiley and how do i get one "ise gots to knows":D
 

cydermaster

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Its courtesy of the Simley Xtra extension to Firefox. I installed it via 'Tools->Extensions->Get More Extensions'. This is the Linux version of F'fox tho, and some menu items maybe a little differant to the Win32 version so you may need to look through the menus to find the 'Extensions' dialogue.
 

m85476585

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It is exactly the same for the Windows version.
I think it is options/preferences that is different. In Windows it is tools -> options, but I think Linux is edit -> preferences.
 

Tedman

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Originally posted by jflis
So long as you don't tape the CHAD motors to *each other*, CHAD-staging clusters works well. Biggest problem is that you are adding a LOT of extra mass, so stability becomes a concern. Also, you have more than one motor casing droping from the sky.

My experience is that the motors stage at such a low altitude that the motors tend to stay clustered around the launch pad so it isn't that big a concern.

My biggest CHAD was a 4 motor cluster (total of 8 D motors) in my Dudley Do-Right :D
DO you think my richter recker will work chad staged with 3 d12's to 3 d12's
 

m85476585

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3 D12s to 3 C11s might be a little better, but I don't know if it would work at all.
 

cjl

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Absolutely - go for it. You could even do 3 D12's to 3 E9's if you want some serious altitude. It'll work just fine - that thing is WAY overstable.
 

Tedman

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is it too hevay though 23 oz with out engines i weighed it on my digfital scale
 

cjl

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23 oz is FINE for 3 D12's. Each D12 can lift on the order of 12oz. Just make sure you use reliable igniters, as you want to ensure that all 3 light.
 

Tedman

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imade pretty god clip whips arfe they more reliable than just attaching the igniters together
 

cjl

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They aren't any better, but they should be just as good.Make sure to test the continuity of each individual estes igniter when hooking it up, rather than only testing the 3 together.
 

metalwizard

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Originally posted by stevem
isn't that rocket a 2 engine cluster? did you chad stage both??
it can be done, i have a scratch built that the booster is 2 d12-0's and the sustainer is 1 E9-8 and two c6-7's... they dont line up at all, i have a little air gap between the motors, i use a little 4f on top of the booster motors (very little) then i use a small screwdriver in the nozzel of each sustainer motor (just to make sure its nice fresh black powder to light. works every time !!!!

chad staging is fun
 

metalwizard

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by the way ive also done it with my 24mm upscale duces wild. 2 d12'0s chad starting 2 e9's... it's lots of fun when so much can go wrong..

jim F. you should make a kit like that...
 

jflis

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Originally posted by metalwizard
by the way ive also done it with my 24mm upscale duces wild. 2 d12'0s chad starting 2 e9's... it's lots of fun when so much can go wrong..

jim F. you should make a kit like that...
I've seen a stock Deuce's Wild! CHAD staged as well as a 24mm upscale. Very kewl.

I doubt you'd have any problem CHAD staging the Richter Recker so long as the 3 boosters were D12 (don't try it with C11's...)

Would certainly be an interesting flight :)
 
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