# Cert 1 options

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#### pcm26

##### New Member
Looking to go for my Level 1 cert this spring . Looking at rocket options. Was considering the Aerotech G-Force. Have built many Aerotech rockets. I would change off the bat the shock cord and use Aero pack retainer. Also rail buttons. Also looking at the Giant Leap Thunder Bolt 38. And feedback or other options would be helpful Thanks in advance Pcm26

#### dave carver

##### ....what hump?
Well, the G-Force really isn't made for anything larger than a G. Yes, it can be modified for a larger motor but in this case I'd say go for the Giant Leap Thunder Bolt. With the 38 mm mount you have more options as to motor selection like an adapter to 29 mm.

So many options as to motor size then

#### redsox15

##### Well-Known Member
I certed on a LOC Fantom. It had a 38mm mount and was a very straight forward fairly simple build. I chose it because it was my first HPR build and didnt want a thousand parts to deal with. So if you're looking to go with the KISS principle then the Fantom is a good choice.

good luck on the cert and happy flying

Matt

#### pcm26

##### New Member
I was looking at the Fantom I would like to find a rocsim file on it.

#### patelldp

##### Well-Known Member
I am just about finished with a Loc Hi Tech H45. Great kit that I would think (when built with either a Slimline or Aeropack system) would fly great with an H128W (29-180) or H123 (38-240). Also will fly great on any of the comparable Pro38's. Great kit!

#### cbrarick

##### Wildman CT
wildman jr - it's a great rocket already set up for dual deploy (when you want to tackle that) and easily handles a J motor. It's G10 so it's plenty tough, too. one bird, level one and two without having to do anything else! Plus the famous wildman guarantee - build it like the instructions say and he'll replace it for free! (that's tough to do, I put mine in without a chute from 2500 feet (the ematch failed) and it came in on a flat spin (I was doing dual deploy) without damage other then a scratch in the paint.

https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/default.asp?groupid=1&groupid1=612121482&prodid=344474524070292

#### JoeG

##### Well-Known Member
Looking to go for my Level 1 cert this spring . Looking at rocket options. Was considering the Aerotech G-Force. Have built many Aerotech rockets. I would change off the bat the shock cord and use Aero pack retainer. Also rail buttons. Also looking at the Giant Leap Thunder Bolt 38. And feedback or other options would be helpful Thanks in advance Pcm26
What are your plans for the future. I have witnessed a couple of cert 1 flights on the G-Force with an H128. Really gets up there. How big is your field? Are you going to fly more Level 1 motors than mid power?

My suggestions, if you plan to fly mostly mid power with an occasional H128 then go with the G-Force or other rocket that will fly on the motors you are going to be using.

If you are certifying to try out all the wonderful level one motors then build something with a 38mm motor mount so you can explore more of the motors available. Again, it depends on your field. My first cert flight, back when it was only required to fly an H motor in anything to be certified in all of high power, I used a stock Loc Graduator with Apogee deployment and larger elastic shock cord. That rocket disappeared for most of the flight. It really wasn't much fun for me even though it was a success. It was better to fly it on E's and F's because that was what our field was suited to.

I wouldn't be concerned about building a rocket to handle both level one and two because if you are serious about going to level two there will be many more rockets in your future anyway. If you are not going to fly a lot of larger level one rockets or go for your level 2 either soon or at all (It's not mandatory ) you are going to have a rocket that either flies pretty low and slow (which may be what you want) or very infrequently.

Just some thoughts.

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#### pcm26

##### New Member
Thank you for the great input. Here in Houston I have 3 great fields to fly . NASA and Herane both HP fields and my club Challenger498 up to G. I am looking for the best of both worlds. LOC Minie-Magg and Fantom and two strong options. I would be flying more F and Gs than H. As far as level 2 everything happens in time. What is great so many rockets just have to fine the time thanks again pcm26 Houston TX

#### Viperfixr

##### Born Again Rocketeer
If I had to do it all over again, I'd take a strong look at the Wildman Jr kit--all FG, very strong, high flyer on anything through a J. If I still wanted to fly F & G motors after certification, you could do it with something as simple as a Mercury Engineering Hijacker for $46--ME makes great kits. LOCs are great choices too, just more$s.

#### Handeman

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joe has some very good advice about the type of flying you'll be doing.

To kind of restate what Joe said, there's three basic sizes you can get for a L1 cert.

• Small - will fly on E or F - H, where and H will really get it some altitude.
• Medium - will fly on G - I motors where an H will get it up there, but not too high.
• Large - will fly on H - J or K motors where an H will keep the flight low and slow.
I like the Binder Design kits. I have a Thug and it's the rocket I fly the most. I have the 29mm version, but I would recommend the 38mm version just for the larger selections of motors.

If you are looking for a Small kit,the BD Thug is a great one.
In a Medium, the Excel & Excel Plus are excellent, as is the Iris
In a Large size, there is the JackHammer, Sentinal, Stealth, and Samurai.
The California Kid is a Large kit that is a little more advanced but is pretty cool and recommended for H - K.

The Binder Design kits do not come with pre-slotted tubes. You do get to do some building instead of just assembly. The instructions are excellent so don't let that deter you.

Good Luck. I'll expect to see a build thread and flight report, with pictures!

#### Binder Design

##### Well-Known Member
[/LIST]
I like the Binder Design kits. I have a Thug and it's the rocket I fly the most. I have the 29mm version, but I would recommend the 38mm version just for the larger selections of motors.

If you are looking for a Small kit,the BD Thug is a great one.
In a Medium, the Excel & Excel Plus are excellent, as is the Iris
In a Large size, there is the JackHammer, Sentinal, Stealth, and Samurai.
The California Kid is a Large kit that is a little more advanced but is pretty cool and recommended for H - K.

The Binder Design kits do not come with pre-slotted tubes. You do get to do some building instead of just assembly. The instructions are excellent so don't let that deter you.
Handeman,

Thanks for the recommendation! Not all of our kits require you to slot your own airframe. All of the newer kits that have been released since 2001 come with pre-slotted airframes. It is only the original Scott Binder designed kits that require slotting.

Don't let that scare you though. IMO, slotting is a very important skill that is very easy to do. I know several L3 flyers that have never slotted a tube. Shame on them.

If you are going to be in this hobby for awhile, it pays to learn how to slot airframes. Even though our older kits are not pre-slotted, they do include reference lines so you can get your slots straight. It must not be too hard since I've never had to replace a tube because of a customer messed up the slots.

If you are still worried about that, just mention in the comments section and we will slot it for free before shipping it.

Thanks,
Mike Fisher
Binder Design
https://binderdesign.com

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#### Handeman

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Mike, I guess I'm a little behind the times on the Binder Design kits. I've been scratch building most of my stuff for several years.

The Thug is still my most flown model. Unfortunately I made a stupid motor choice and lawndarted it Saturday. That's the fourth and worst crash for the Thug but with a coupler and a little body tubing it will be flying again. Like a real Thug, it's a tough bird!

I agree that everyone that is in this hobby any length of time should know how to notch body tubes. I remember the markings on the Thug BT and how easy it was to notch the tubes. It really isn't difficult at all. Then again, if you're going to notch them for free,....

#### cbrarick

##### Wildman CT
I've kept track of my wildman jr flights...G76, G80, G106, H97, H180, I154, I225, I245, J381 (ceseroni 6 grain skid). She's a tough bird that I've spun in from 1800 feet, no damage.

#### cbrarick

##### Wildman CT
Oh, yeah, that's an I245!

#### dave carver

##### ....what hump?
I actually confirmed on a 3"x5' PVC drain pipe rocket built from scratch. Turned a nosecone from a 4"x4"x20" block of pine(fence post top), sew'd up my first parachute for it.

Used an AT I284-14 weight was 5 lbs and I figured it went 4500-5000 ft.

Flown on:

H242, I161, I357, I300, I284, I195, I132 single use, I435, Kosdon J280. I have a J350 in a friend's locker for when I decide to recertify next year:hohoho:

Oh, yeah. Total investment for rocket:>\$10 not including motor.

#### Mikus

##### Well-Known Member
Thank you for the great input. Here in Houston I have 3 great fields to fly . NASA and Herane both HP fields and my club Challenger498 up to G.
Don't forget you can't fly J's at JSC (yet), only Hearne.

I certed L1 with a Madcow Patriot at Hearne, I'll bring it to the next Challenger launch if you want to inspect it. :hohoho:

#### davalf

##### Well-Known Member
You guys mentioned slotting your own airframe. What is the best way to do this. On the forums I have only seen how one person had done this. The had a router and built a large jig to hold the rocket. I do not have a router and do not really feel like building a large jig. Thanks.

Dave

#### dixontj93060

##### Well-Known Member
I'm no craftsman so my method is crude. I simply measure and mark carefully and then use a roto-tool cut off wheel. This is simple, relatively quick and works fine for me.

You guys mentioned slotting your own airframe. What is the best way to do this. On the forums I have only seen how one person had done this. The had a router and built a large jig to hold the rocket. I do not have a router and do not really feel like building a large jig. Thanks.

Dave

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#### terryg

##### Well-Known Member
You guys mentioned slotting your own airframe. What is the best way to do this. On the forums I have only seen how one person had done this. The had a router and built a large jig to hold the rocket. I do not have a router and do not really feel like building a large jig. Thanks.

Dave
I use the attached BSD fin guide to mark the fin spacings. I then use a piece of aluminum right angle molding against the body tube to mark the lines. Mark addition lines 1/2 the fin thickness on either side of the guide line, where you will actually cut. Tape the angle molding in place and use an exacto knife to make the cuts (using the molding to guide the blade). Use a new sharp blade and make repeated slow light cuts.

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#### stantonjtroy

##### Well-Known Member
I've been considering this one for my wife for her L1. Did you get yours with the EXL option?

I certed on a LOC Fantom. It had a 38mm mount and was a very straight forward fairly simple build. I chose it because it was my first HPR build and didnt want a thousand parts to deal with. So if you're looking to go with the KISS principle then the Fantom is a good choice.

good luck on the cert and happy flying

Matt

#### redsox15

##### Well-Known Member
No I didn't get the EXL option because I didn't have any intentions of making it into a dual deploy. The positive thing with the EXL option I think after building and flying the Fantom, is that it would probably fly a little lower which is good depending on the size of the field. Then there is always using it for a future level two DD rocket.

Hope this helps,

Matt

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#### COrocket

##### Well-Known Member
Personally, I did my level 1 on a public missiles patriot. It is a 4" kit with a 38mm motor mount, so you could fly on a 38mm or 29mm motor.
The QT airframe and G10 fins make for a straightforward and simple build.
It flew great on a H123W for my cert flight, to about 1500 ft.

Another plus is that the rocket is large and strong enough to use for Level 2. It has survived a CTI I540, and im planning on a J350W or CTI J285, to about 4000 ft
Im sure other PML kits would work well too

#### loopy

##### Well-Known Member
PML Small Endeavour with an H165R. About 1400 feet or so. Great flight! Easy build, flies great on any G or H motor you can throw at it!

#### BsSmith

##### Well-Known Member
I recommend the Pem Tech King Kraken.

It's a great looking, easy to build rocket that will fly on anything from F-I. Mine flies very well on H's and it stays in sight. It also has a 38mm mount. If you ever want to do L2, you can beef up the fin mounting, add a DD section, and fly it on a J.

Here's mine on an H76