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Ceramic Paper Insulation?

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powderburner

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With a sheet thickness of 1/8th or 1/4 inch (1/16th was the minimum I saw listed), wouldn't it be almost as effective to wrap an equivalent thickness of more 'inhibitor' layers instead? And a whole lot cheaper? (or is this a dumb question)
 

BlueNinja

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Dunno. If you got teh money, go for it, but I say it's too much. minimum order of $890, ouch, and if you find that you don't like it, loss to you. It's all up to you however.
 

Loki

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I have experimented with this stuff. The problems that I had resulted from the paper being really flimsy. It was like working with compressed lint. It could handle the high temperatures, but it has very little strength. It's also somewhat porus, you can flow gas right through it.
 

Elapid

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thanks for the input!
is the porous nature of the material a major problem?

how about alternate layers of ceramic paper and kraft paper to make casting tubes that would not need liners...?
 

cdma77

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Aerocon carriers teflon tape. What about that ? Or RTV coated tube ?
 

Elapid

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the purpose of the ceramic paper insulation would be to keep the high temperature combustion gases from melting through the motor casing during a long, hot, high-pressure burn.

teflon is not a good insulator, that i know of, and breaks down into highly toxic compounds when heated over 350F (IIRC).

thanks for the reply, tho!
:)
 

Stymye

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this morning, after a night of mexican food and some tecate ,I could have used some of that ceramic paper.
talk about combustion!
 

BlueNinja

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Originally posted by Elapid
the purpose of the ceramic paper insulation would be to keep the high temperature combustion gases from melting through the motor casing during a long, hot, high-pressure burn.

teflon is not a good insulator, that i know of, and breaks down into highly toxic compounds when heated over 350F (IIRC).

thanks for the reply, tho!
:)

I never knew of teflon breaking down, we have some nonstick teflon sheets that you can use for baking cookies and stuff, and it's been a while since I took home ec. but i think they were heated at least 350 degrees... Even then, taflo pans are subjected to temps of over 300 degrees on teh stove... at least according to my digital thermometer.
 

Elapid

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Originally posted by Blue_Ninja_150
I never knew of teflon breaking down, we have some nonstick teflon sheets that you can use for baking cookies and stuff, and it's been a while since I took home ec. but i think they were heated at least 350 degrees... Even then, taflo pans are subjected to temps of over 300 degrees on teh stove... at least according to my digital thermometer.

is bliss

i was off by 50*F, but as you will see, i did say, "if i recall correctly".

http://www.ewg.org/issues/pfcs/20030529/index.php


Breathing Teflon tape fumes

The reliability of humans as indicators of Teflon toxicity was confirmed in a mass poisoning incident involving inhalation of Teflon fumes from heated Teflon tape.

One year after DuPont’s cigarette experiments, the Air Force conducted human studies following a C54 flight in which all the passengers and crew became mysteriously ill [Nuttall et al. 1964]. The incident is recounted in a review of fluoropolymer safety conducted 13 years later by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH): “Within 1 hour of takeoff, most of the passengers and two of the crew members had chest discomfort and general malaise, including chills, nausea, and respiratory distress in some. One passenger vomited and collapsed and was found 5-10 minutes later in a cyanotic state with a weak and rapid pulse. A second passenger had severe respiratory distress and moderate collapse. Six passengers were incapacitated, and five were given oxygen... On arrival, three passengers required hospitalization, and everyone aboard the plane except one co-pilot had experienced effects, which persisted after the plane landed.” Four people who collected air samples from the plane after it landed also developed a fever reaction [NIOSH 1977].

A series of human experiments was designed to pinpoint the cause. Up to 28 volunteers in six separate trials were exposed to fumes from the exhaust system of the airplane. After ruling out multiple gases and other potential causes, the toxicity was linked to Teflon tape that had covered part of the exhaust manifold, and that had heated up during flight to offgasing temperatures.
 

BlueNinja

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Yikes. Kinda scared to bake cookies now... :eek:


Sorry if i kinda sounded like a knowitall, just relating a personal experience.
 

Elapid

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suggest using PTFE tape as recovery wadding...
i feel this is not safe.

:eek:
 

Loki

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Originally posted by Elapid
thanks for the input!
is the porous nature of the material a major problem?

how about alternate layers of ceramic paper and kraft paper to make casting tubes that would not need liners...?
The porous nature is a problem, as I said.

Another problem is that it is relatively expensive.

Even if your casting tubes hold up, in a Bates motor you still have the gaps between the grains to worry about.
 
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