Hmmm, apparently there's a ship in Dan Dare named the Astral Queen. Is Celestial Queen too close? Do I need to change it? (Interestingly enough, "Astral Queen" was another name I considered.)
"Celestial Queen" retro-style rocket design and build thread
- Thread starter Azamiryou
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Probably not, I mean you could almost certainly go ahead and call it the astral queen.
how does a radio have a transmission limit in space, I mean the deep space network can transmit to outside the heliopause and they have an atmosphere to deal with.
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No. I don't see why a unique name is important at all, unless it's important to you personally. Heck, you coulld call it U.S.S. Enterprise if you wanted to, and no one else would care (or it wouldn't be any of their business). And Celestial Queen is not the same as Astral Queen; I'm sure it would be fine under copywrite law, so you're good unless your personal standard is much more stringent than the law.
It's a matter of transmitted power plus antenna gain, and receiver sensitivity plus its antenna gain. (PM me if you want more explanation on antenna gain.) The signal strength falls off by an inverse square law, so when the transmitter and receiver are too far apart the receiver can't "pull in" the signal.
ok so in this scenario hank just has a crappy antenna or something. I was a bit of an idiot for thinking of it as a line of site thing.
I suspect the drawing is not even remotely to scale, and the Astral Queen is probably relaying a message. The diagram tries to explain it simply for readers. (The circle for the AQ's transmitting limit should be centered on the AQ, though, not the moon.)
I'll probably keep it because it's not the same, and because CQ wasn't derived from it — but I guess I'm a little bothered that someone might think my name was derivative while my aim was to be original.
I guess "original" might be a strange target in a contest called The Buck Rogers Rocket Challenge.
yes, I but expected him to at least be in the earth moon system, if he's out at mars or something then it makes sense.
ps what's the use a a moon com system that can't communicate with things in the earth moon system.
its originally, unoriginal!!I guess "original" might be a strange target in a contest called The Buck Rogers Rocket Challenge.
Since it's dramatically not to scale, how do you know that Hank's rocket isn't orbiting Titan? Because Earth's position isn't shown? If the figure is so flawed that the center of Astral Queen's range is shown as the moon, there are undoubtedly a zillion other flaws. There's no context given for this one panel. And we're discussing a really pointless point (if that's a thing).
This is Dan Dare, they travel all over the solar system (and beyond, but I think they used an alien ship for that). At least as far as I can tell from Internet resources. It's not part of my cultural background, but the more I find out about it, the more I want to get hold of it and read it. (Apparently Arthur C Clarke was involved early on.)
I'd expect titan to be next to him to indicate. but I'm no comic book artist.
Sorry, "orbiting Titan" was just supposed to mean "very, very far away."
OK, mind you this is still just silly and pointless, but what the heck. Let's say Hank is a million miles away. That's really close in solar system scale, about 3% of the way to Mars at it's closest approach to Earth, but never mind; it's a nice round number. Now, if the transmission distance is 600,000 miles, you'd need a relay about half way. In this figure, all the distances and the sizes of Earth and Luna are to scale, but the ships are obviously not.
(Actually, the transmission ranges should not be circular like that due to the use of directional antennas, but that's more detail than I'm willing to put into this silly subtopic.)
OK, mind you this is still just silly and pointless, but what the heck. Let's say Hank is a million miles away. That's really close in solar system scale, about 3% of the way to Mars at it's closest approach to Earth, but never mind; it's a nice round number. Now, if the transmission distance is 600,000 miles, you'd need a relay about half way. In this figure, all the distances and the sizes of Earth and Luna are to scale, but the ships are obviously not.
(Actually, the transmission ranges should not be circular like that due to the use of directional antennas, but that's more detail than I'm willing to put into this silly subtopic.)
I found the previous page, so a little silly and pointless context:
The Queen rescued Hank's disabled ship from the gravitational pull of an asteroid.
One of Hank's crew was injured and couldn't be evacuated to the Queen. Rather than abandon him, Dan wants to try to repair the ship, but he needs help from engineers on the moon to do that. (The Queen can't just tow the ship like it did to save it from the asteroid because mumble mumble.) They're out of radio range, so the Queen has to leave him there and go closer to the moon to be a radio relay.
That trip only took six hours, so either the Queen is super duper fast, or they were just barely out of radio range.
Also because mumble mumble the Queen won't be able to go back to get Dan, so all will be lost if he isn't able to get the ship working.
Sounds like he could be in the asteroid belt. I don't know what ship speeds are like, but apparently they're far enough from earth/moon that they can't just have a better equipped rescue ship come out and get Hank's ship, or at least the injured man.
Okay, I'm keeping the name. I've decided I'm okay with my rocket's name being associated with a luxury liner turned freighter involved in rescuing a stranded and doomed rocket.
Hmm if it has a NTP engine, then I’d say it could probably get up to 3Gs if it’s a pebble type going full throttle. You can get a good distance in 6 hours.
Is that constantly 3Gs, three hours accelerating and three decelerating? I suspect that six hours at 3 gee would take a serious toll on the crew. It would cover only 710,754 miles.
From Earth to the nearest point in the asteroid belt (an assumption not backed up by the story as reported to us) about 255,750,000 miles. To cover that in six hours means an average speed of 42,625,000 mph. Assuming uniform acceleration, half the trip accelerating and half decelerating, that acceleration would have to be 24,416,667 mphph, or 360 gees. Conclusion? They've got some sort of hyperphysics drive.
And that's only about 60% of the way to Jupiter.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is."
From Earth to the nearest point in the asteroid belt (an assumption not backed up by the story as reported to us) about 255,750,000 miles. To cover that in six hours means an average speed of 42,625,000 mph. Assuming uniform acceleration, half the trip accelerating and half decelerating, that acceleration would have to be 24,416,667 mphph, or 360 gees. Conclusion? They've got some sort of hyperphysics drive.
And that's only about 60% of the way to Jupiter.
"Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is."
-- Douglas Adams
And now, back to your regularly scheduled program...
First off, I wanted the retainer cap to be inset 1/8” from the ends of the tubes, so I glued together some waste material (holes from laser cut centering rings) to hold the cap level, 1/8" above the table. I taped down some waxed paper to protect my surface in case of any glue runs or drips.
I scraped off little bits of primer from the tubes to give them a good surface for gluing. I used 5 minute epoxy to glue them together in pairs, being careful to keep the glue only on one side of the joint — the side that would be glued to the cap and hidden.
Then, with the cap propped up 1/8", I scraped the inner side of each tube and glued them to the retainer cap.
Finally I double-checked that the cap still easily screws onto the motor mount, and the tubes fit perfectly into the main body tube.
Gluing up the decorative engine tubes
First off, I wanted the retainer cap to be inset 1/8” from the ends of the tubes, so I glued together some waste material (holes from laser cut centering rings) to hold the cap level, 1/8" above the table. I taped down some waxed paper to protect my surface in case of any glue runs or drips.
I scraped off little bits of primer from the tubes to give them a good surface for gluing. I used 5 minute epoxy to glue them together in pairs, being careful to keep the glue only on one side of the joint — the side that would be glued to the cap and hidden.
Then, with the cap propped up 1/8", I scraped the inner side of each tube and glued them to the retainer cap.
Finally I double-checked that the cap still easily screws onto the motor mount, and the tubes fit perfectly into the main body tube.
That fit is perfect! Looks amazing.
I was assuming that it was 6 hours at 3G with no slowing down as they only need to get one dish pointed at the moon and one at Hank with both being in range (the moon engineers can send a IKEA booklet or something ). I agree that they probably have a (insert drive here) or they are just outside the range like @Azamiryou suggests. In any case I’ve spent a disturbing amount of time on this (that being anytime at all).
That came out beautifully. Are you concerned about crushing the tubes when gripping them to remove the cap? I mean, putting it on could be reasonably gentle, but things do have a way of getting sticky or tight after a flight.
What's the size of the BT-2? (Yes, I tried Google.) Are they MMX MMTs? I'm well known for borrowing trouble, so disregard this if you like, but I'd stuff those tubes with spent MMX motors, or wood dowels, or something.
The tubes are actually quite strong, I don't anticipate any trouble with crushing. If the cap gets really stuck, I'll know before I damage the tubes, and work on getting it open with pliers or something on the exposed cap instead of the tubes.
The tubes are T2Plus from Balsa Machining Service, 0.281 OD and 0.255 ID.
They could be reinforced with T2 inside, but I really don't think they need it and I want to minimize weight at this end of the rocket.
I put CWF on the cones and sanded them.
Also carved a nose spike from balsa. I don't think I like it though. It'll break easily, but could still really hurt someone.
I need to find something like a hard rubber — tough, stiff enough to stay straight on its own, but flexible enough it won't give anyone a puncture wound.
Also carved a nose spike from balsa. I don't think I like it though. It'll break easily, but could still really hurt someone.
I need to find something like a hard rubber — tough, stiff enough to stay straight on its own, but flexible enough it won't give anyone a puncture wound.
Fins
I cut out the fins with a trusty jeweler's fret saw and #6 blade. The cut was just outside the lines, then I sanded right to the line with 220 grit sandpaper. For the wings, I used double sided tape to hold them together and sand them to match.
I rounded the leading and outboard edges, and lightly beveled the trailing edges, leaving the roots flat.
With everything shaped, I finished with 400 grit sandpaper.
Attachments
Marking
I made a fin marking guide by wrapping paper around the tube and making two alignment marks across the seam.
Then with the paper removed, I can precisely measure the distance from the seam edge to the far end of the alignment marks.
It measured just a bit under 5-5/32", and 130.5 mm. In this case, 130.5 is much easier to divide by three, so I went with mm. Wings and fin are 43.5 mm apart, and the skid is centered between the two wings 21.75 mm from each.
I then wrapped the paper back around the tube and made my marks. Then, I twisted my guide to check that everything was spaced evenly and correctly. It was, so I took off the paper and extended the lines in the usual way.
Fin Glue-up
Gluing the fins was a bit of a challenge. My fin jig uses the body tube ahead of the fins to register for alignment, and this design doesn't offer much body tube ahead of the fins. It was fiddly, but with perseverance I managed it
I used double gluing — apply a thin layer of glue, wait sixty seconds, apply more glue, then stick. Usually I time the sixty seconds with my phone, but I asked myself WWZD*? And went with an hourglass.
I couldn't use the jig for the skid, the wings were in the way. (A minor change to the jig would fix it, but that's for another time.) So I drew up some jigs and printed them on cardstock. I used a piece of tube marking guide to ensure the skid was aligned along the tube, and the cut out cardstock jig to make sure it was sticking straight out from the tube.
*What would Zarkov do?
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Top Pod
Finally, attaching the top pod. I glued the fin onto the pod the same time I was putting fins on the main body. It didn't need a paper wrap, since it only has one fin.With the outer fin on the pod and the inner fin on the main body, getting the pod lined up correctly was a simple matter of getting the two fins precisely aligned.
I found a piece of scrap balsa that was nice and straight. I cut some sticks off it, narrower and considerably longer than the fins, and clamped them to the fins. Then I cut some cross pieces to connect the two sticks. I glued clamped these to the stick on the inner fin (glue so there are fewer clamps I have to worry about possibly shifting).
Once the glue set, I put glue on the outer edge of the inner fin, touched the pod to it briefly, and gave the glue a minute to set up. Then I added another layer of glue, slid the pod into place, and clamped the stick to the cross pieces.
It worked like a charm: the fins are exactly aligned.
I temporarily stuck in a nose spike and the motor mount for a "beauty shot".
What's left? Fillets, chute and shock cord, laundry shelf, gluing in the motor mount, figuring out the nose spike, swing testing, adding nose weight, and of course paint.
This build looks excellent! I noticed that you applied some glue in the foward end of the tube, does it help keep that surface from getting messed up from ejection and packing?
Yes, it's thin CA to protect the end from potential damage. It's probably not super important on a build this size, but it can't hurt and I anticipate the nose cone will end up pretty heavy.
It protects against things like dings, dents, and delaminating spirals, to which ends of tubes are particularly prone.
Paint Test (Part 1)
I have several ideas for painting these, so I need to test them all and see what works best. I need the paint on a curved tube to make sure it will look right on the rocket itself. So I cut up some old yellow 18mm spacer tubes from Estes kits, and glued them to cardboard handles.Then I got out the ol' airbrush, which I haven't used in years (by which I mean "decades") and started with base coats of Testors flat white and flat black.
Then the weather turned cold and rainy
. I probably won't be able to continue my tests until Wednesday.
Fin Fillets and Launch Lug
I'd originally planned to use epoxy clay for the fin fillets, but with the Lite-Ply fins that seemed like overkill, so I went with good ol' white glue, the LPR standard for more than half a century. I did two thin applications, letting it dry in between, to reduce the chance of bubbles.The lug got tucked under a wing, back far enough to not show in typical "beauty shot" angles.
Nose Spike
This was a real problem to be solved. First, I carved one from balsa, and it looked fine... but I didn't like the safety aspect of it. Even though it's "just" balsa, it could give someone a nasty puncture wound in a catastrophe.I needed something soft. I tried carving one from pencil eraser, but it was too soft and floppy. Making a narrow paper cone proved to be very difficult to get looking nice — straight and neat without wrinkles, creases, or a giant seam. Cutting one from foam didn't work, it's so soft you can't control the cuts well enough.
Finally, I hit on using air dry foam clay. It's soft and easy to work with, very lightweight, and dries into a firm foam. It's available in a huge variety of colors (and can be mixed to produce infinitely more), so no painting is needed. I can make up several, so if one gets damaged in flight, it's easily replaced.
I hand rolled them with decent success, but they still weren't perfect. So I decided to try using a mold to cast them. Ideally, I'd turn a master from plastic or aluminum, then make a mold of that. But I don't have mold-making materials and didn't really want to order more stuff at this point.
So I broke down and made a 3D model of the mold and imposed on a friend with a printer to print it for me.
It worked perfectly!
I've gone with a dark red for now, but after the paint is on the rocket, I'll pick a color that matches or contrasts with it nicely.
First Primer Coat
After no end of problems with Rust-Oleum primers, a few months ago I finally found a primer I really like: Harbor Freight's "Iron Armor" Sandable Primer! Fills well, dries fast, and sands like a dream.Of course, when I went to get some for this project... I found out they don't make it anymore
Based on price and availability, I went back to the Rust-Oleum well. They make a lot of primers, surely one of them will work for me! I went to my local True Value and picked up a couple of them to try: "Automotive" and "Professional". Unlike what I tried before (probably "2x" but I don't remember), these dried fairly quickly. "Automotive" filled well and was okay to sand but slightly gummy. "Professional" didn't fill as much, but sanded really well.
I decided to go with "Professional", and put the first coat of primer on.
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