"Celestial Queen" retro-style rocket design and build thread

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Azamiryou

Learn from your mistakes. I learned a lot today!
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I'm a fan of retro-style rockets, so decided to jump into the contest. This is my entry.

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I rather like the pod on this Buck Rogers ship, and the long trailing fins. Initially, I wanted something a little sleeker and less "busy", so my first cut was a BT-55 design with pods; the spars holding the pods were stretched out into fins.

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This wasn't really doing it for me. I like it well enough, and maybe it will be a future build, but it's too... ordinary.

So I changed direction a bit. First off, probably my favorite Estes rocket is the outstanding Dragon Ship 7.

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I love the motor tubes, the shape of the fins, and the horizontal landing position. (It worked for Buck, Flash, and Commando Cody!)

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Unlike Commando Cody, I like the retro look of long fins running along the main fuselage.

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This rocket sculpture built for a parade in 1936 by a sheet metal workers union is AMAZING! Someday I'd like to build a version of it that flies. But that's not this project.

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With all that in mind, I started to sketch, and ended up here:

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In OpenRocket, I decided to make it longer, a lot longer, to keep the nose weight down so it can fly on B and C motors.

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The colors aren't final, and of course it will eventually get windows, rivets, a door, and other details.

With 35g of nose weight, a C5-3 will take it about 300'. OR gives the static stability margin as just 0.8 cal, but the flight simulation shows that it's 1.23 cal by the time it leaves the launch rod at over 50 fps and it remains stable throughout the flight. I feel pretty confident since OR seems pretty conservative about CP, but I'll do more testing once it's built and adjust the nose weight as needed.

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I considered rear ejection, but I didn't want all that extra weight in the rear for this. I designed it with a baffle and an 18" chute (I'll probably actually make it 19", thin air up here calls for bigger chutes).

I noticed that 1930s designs don't generally have the noses of real rockets. They tend to be either very round, or long spindly spires, or both -- none of the actual aerodynamic shapes found in the 1940's and later. So I went with hemispherical nose cones, which I'll turn from balsa on a lathe. The pod's tailcone is just a cone, which I'll also turn myself.

I opted for 1/8" plywood for the fins. I'd prefer balsa for the weight, but they need to be rugged so those long bits sticking out the back don't break on landing. Even with the plywood, I may add some sort of reinforcement there.

Dragon Ship 7 used BT-3 tubes around the 18mm motor mount. For this one, I plan to use an Estes screw-on motor retainer. BT-2 tubes should fit between that and the BT-60 body tube, but I don't have any yet to test. But if it works, I'll epoxy those tubes to the retainer cap itself, and the whole unit will screw off and on to retain the motor.

I'm in the middle of another project I have to finish, but parts are on order, and hopefully I'll get to start building within a week or two.
 
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In OpenRocket, I decided to make it longer, a lot longer, to keep the nose weight down so it can fly on B and C motors.
With all due respect... that's why it doesn't look "right". Axe the baffle and shorten the tube. Plenty of space in a BT-60 for dog barf and a Kevlar chute protector... add nose weight... up the motor to 24mm.​
Design the rocket so it looks "right"... then pick the motor.​
 
With all due respect... that's why it doesn't look "right". Axe the baffle and shorten the tube. Plenty of space in a BT-60 for dog barf and a Kevlar chute protector... add nose weight... up the motor to 24mm.​
Design the rocket so it looks "right"... then pick the motor.​
I'm not sure I don't like the length. It doesn't look like the sketch, but the sketch was just an idea to get started. And I'd really like to keep it on 18mm motors.

But the design is far from final, so I'll play with it and see what it will take to make it shorter and whether I like it. 👍🏻
 
I think the long version would look better once it has details painted on it. Also, if it was me, I'd make the nose cone a little longer. Maybe one diameter beyond the edge of the body tube. Maybe a bit more 3D detail as well. Maybe a cockpit and other details stolen from the B-36 or B-47 bombers. Come to think of it, a nearly wingless rocket styled after a B-36 might be interesting after this one.

That first picture might be fun with motors in the 3 pods, toed in a bit, and a body that came to a point in the back. Hollow fins to carry the ejection charge inside, maybe with crude flapper valves to prevent gases escaping if the charges didn't go off simultaneously.
 
If these are some of the designs that I am competing with, I am in serious trouble!
Well now, the vast majority of the pics I posted are just inspirational artwork. I can't speak for others, but I expect my entry to fall far short of that ideal.
 
I'd make the nose cone a little longer. Maybe one diameter beyond the edge of the body tube. ... Maybe a cockpit and other details stolen from the B-36 or B-47 bombers.

I intentionally avoided an elliptical nose and raised cockpit bubble, partly to move the design farther from Dragon Ship 7 — and from common model rocket nose shapes.

Plus, I'm hoping that turning my own nose cones will get me those two points for a special technique in the contest. 😜

(Side note to autocorrect: no, I am not trying to type "Dragon 💩".)
 
I'm not sure I don't like the length. It doesn't look like the sketch, but the sketch was just an idea to get started. And I'd really like to keep it on 18mm motors.

But the design is far from final, so I'll play with it and see what it will take to make it shorter and whether I like it. 👍🏻
Remember, if you end up adding more nose weight (due to shortening the rocket of for whatever reason) there are the 18 mm Q-Jets, C-12, D16, and D20. So you could launch more weight and still stay with 18 mm.
 
Axe the baffle and shorten the tube.

It's got promise. Might still get 250'-280' on a C5-3, depending on the actual nose weight required.

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I'll probably need to see it with details (rivets and windows at least) added to tell whether I like it better short or long. I think the fins need tweaking, too. I've made them a little sleeker, but they still need some work.
 
Checking reference photos for patterns of rivets, I'm blown away by how many there are. I had a thought of trying to do them realistically, but now I'm thinking it would be too much and seriously detract from the appearance.

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Your rocket''s design parameters include absurdly fast flight through the atmosphere. Of course it has flush rivets, filled and painted over, except for Dzus fittings at inspection panels.
 
I thought this vessel deserved a name, something poetic and romantic that would fit the sensibilities of the 1930s. And most importantly, it would have to sound "right" when a daring space adventurer says, "Let's get back to the ________!”

After much brainstorming, I think I've settled on the Celestial Queen.
 
For the decorative motor tubes, the BT-2+ tubes I bought don't quite neatly fit between the ridges of the 18mm Estes retainer ring, and putting them on top of the ridges, they don't quite fit inside the BT-60 body tube. So I removed the ridges and sanded the outside of the retainer ring with 80 grit, leaving plenty of scratches for glue grip when I attach the tubes. I cleaned up the bevel to 600 grit, and also smoothed a place on the edge. The tubes won't fit exactly around the ring, so this where I'll put the gap. Later, I'll make sure the gap is aligned to the "bottom" of the Queen.

The BT-2+ itself, I've caked on CWF. After it's together it will be extremely difficult to do any touch up on these, so I want to be sure it's all smooth before assembly. I'll probably even primer it to be absolutely certain before I put it together — it will weaken the glue bonds, but these aren't structural and won't be subject to that much stress.

I also cut the main body tube and filled the spirals.

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I thought this vessel deserved a name, something poetic and romantic that would fit the sensibilities of the 1930s. And most importantly, it would have to sound "right" when a daring space adventurer says, "Let's get back to the ________!”

After much brainstorming, I think I've settled on the Celestial Queen.
I share your vision.

Celestial Queen, now we're sharing the same dream.
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A bit busy with the kid out of school, but I managed to find some time to turn the primary nose cone today.

Started by facing the crudely cut chunk of balsa, then got it round. I cut a collar to fit the shoulder, so I can flip it around with the shoulder in the chuck without damaging the shoulder.

Then flipped it (with the shoulder in the collar), shaped it a tad oversized with turning tools, and brought it precisely to size with sandpaper.

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A bit busy with the kid out of school, but I managed to find some time to turn the primary nose cone today.

Started by facing the crudely cut chunk of balsa, then got it round. I cut a collar to fit the shoulder, so I can flip it around with the shoulder in the chuck without damaging the shoulder.

Then flipped it (with the shoulder in the collar), shaped it a tad oversized with turning tools, and brought it precisely to size with sandpaper.

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What’s up with that chuck, never seen one like that!
 
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That's a great idea on how to chuck the nose cone without leaving a bunch of indentations on the shoulder. I'll have to try that technique.
By the way, it looks like your lathe is a twin to mine, same colors, location and style of the levers, same shape of the headstock, except mine has a different label on it.
 
Measure twice, cut once?

and brought it precisely to size with sandpaper.

When I put it on the tube, it was not a perfect fit. It was overturned. You can't put wood back on with a lathe, so there was nothing for it but to make another one, being even more careful.

That one was also a hair undersize. 🤦🏻‍♂️

So of course I thought, "I should check the measurements." Just kidding! I actually thought, "third time's the charm!" and made a THIRD one that was too small.

Then, finally, I wised up, checked my measurements (they were off), and made one the correct size.
:angiefavorite::angiefavorite::angiefavorite:

After that, I made the nose and tail cones for the pod. Carefully measured, and made the correct size on the first try!

The hole in the main nose is for inserting the nose spike. I haven't decided what it will be made from, but it seems prudent to make it replaceable.

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That's a great idea on how to chuck the nose cone without leaving a bunch of indentations on the shoulder. I'll have to try that technique.
I got so much practice 😂 I refined my technique after that. Where I ended up is:

1. Start with a block about 1.5" longer than needed.
2. Turn between centers to get the block round.
3. Turn the last inch at the tailstock end to 3/4" diameter tenon.
4. Flip the work piece and hold the tenon in a collet chuck. Support the nose with the tail stock live center.
5. Cut the nose shape (pointed towards the tail stock), leaving a nub for the tail stock to support.
6. Cut the shoulder next to the head stock.
7. Cut off the nub and move the tail stock out of the way.
8. Do final clean up cuts on the nose, then sand the whole thing.
9. (Main nose cone only) Drill the nose spike socket with a drill chuck in the tail stock.
10. Use a parting tool to cut it off the tenon.

By the way, it looks like your lathe is a twin to mine
Mine's a Rikon midi with variable speed — probably the 70-220VSR, but I don't remember for sure.

The "label" you see is actually a sticker from a board shop I stuck on it 😂
 
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Not much time to work today, but I printed the fin patterns on card stock, cut them out, and traced around them on plywood.

I've decided to use poplar "Lite-Ply" plywood from BMS, it seems tough enough but much lighter than birch. I want to save all the weight I can on the buns end of the rocket.

I used a very hard pencil to get a sharp line. I'll cut the fins a hair outside the line, then sand to the final dimensions (and make sure the side fins match).

Yes, this is old-school. I suppose one could use a laser cutter or CNC router instead. But (1) that's not how I roll and (2) it's not like Hans Zarkov had a laser cutter or CNC machines to build his rocket!

Now get off my lawn!

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Mine's a Rikon midi with variable speed — probably the 70-220VSR, but I don't remember for sure.

The "label" you see is actually a sticker from a board shop I stuck on it 😂

That explains it.

I have a Rikon 70-050VS mini lathe, just checked my manual because I bought it so long ago. It was just before the color change.
Three different belt speeds and a Variable speed motor. I am so very glad to have bought the variable speed version, as I can't imagine changing belt positions for every speed change.
 

Decorative Engine Tubes​

As I pondered the easiest way to cut the BT-2+ tubes all the same length, I remembered this old Chopper I have from way back when.

I got a short dowel that fits inside the tube, and wrapped it with masking tape to fit just right. It turned out the tape was the perfect cushion to supprt the tube while letting the Chopper's razor blade cut through the tube. 4-5 quick chops while rotating the tube, and making any number of perfect 0.75" lengths was a cinch.

Even better, placed around the retainer ring they are a perfect fit inside a BT-60. Well, a perfect fit inside the hole left by a laser cut centering ring... but I'm pretty confident. (I'll check with actual BT-60 before I srart gluing, though.)

Edit: checked with a BT-60 and it fits just fine. Woot!

There's a tiny gap remaining. I'll make sure the gap is on the "bottom" when I glue in the motor mount.

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