Care and Feeding of Mentors

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kramer714

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There are frequent post from High School and College rocket teams / clubs looking for advice. Over the years I have worked with MANY different youth groups / school teams as an informal or formal mentor. Some of these experiences have been very rewarding for me, others have been frustrating to be polite.

A year ago, I put together a ‘Care and Feeding of Mentors’ document. The idea was to CLEARLY set expectations for the teams. If they didn’t like the ‘terms’ I had laid out, that’s fine, find someone else to mentor you. I didn’t mean that as a threat, just the opposite, I wanted them to know what was willing to do for them, and what they needed to do for me to keep me engaged. No surprises no ambiguity. And yes, like any ‘contract’ if one party doesn’t abide the other party is going to leave. I didn’t make this with the idea of publishing it on here but I think it is good to start the discussion.

For me personally, if you want help with understanding engineering principals, I’m glad to help, if you want a ‘arts and crafts instructor’ I’m not interested, or worse just a check off the box ‘old guy’. Simply if you want my help here are my terms.

Relative to college groups, if you are studying engineering, act like an engineer. Engineering is a process, cool pictures on the screen isn’t engineering, it is graphic design (different major..) the process includes;

  • Requirements - Understanding, collecting, determining requirements
  • Setting the program schedule and budget – realistically – without counting on perfection (what it rained this weekend and I cant launch….?)
  • Performing a REAL preliminary design review
  • Doing actual engineering
  • Performing a REAL CDR
  • Creating a compliance plan
  • If there is a requirement how are going to show you meet it? Analysis, testing, spec sheet, divining rod..
  • Creating a test plan – and following it
  • Creating a ‘build to’ plan – this should be part of the CDR but is a living document
Skip these and it isn’t engineering. Skip these and the program will take MORE time (man hours and calendar time), have a Lower chance of success, and will have HIGHER stress for the team mates, skip these and you will either not get (or loose the one you have) a mentor.

Job applications’ – I agree with some of the sentiments on here, applying for an engineering job and talking about the cool rocket you built, might get you a beer and a fun chat about rockets, but doesn’t get you the job. Talk about how your CDR had issues that you had didn’t realize until testing, and how you reacted to that and how you learned about doing a CDR next time, gets you the job.

One engineer I hired, about a year after I hired him asked me why I picked him to hire from the pool of applicants. My answer surprised him. During his interview instead of telling me how cool his capstone project was, he told me what things didn’t work in his capstone (including how unrealistic his schedule was), and proceeded to tell me how he would do the design reviews differently in the future, that is a skill I wanted from a young engineer.
 

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How about something that also covers personal conduct at the field and respect for the hosting club, safety, and the land owner?

Over the last 5 years I've observed more and more throngs of dis-interested, non-involved "rocketry team members from (fill in the school)" more interested in running around grab-a$$ING about while there are maybe 4 folks actually working the rocket, checklist, etc.

And let's not leave out the parents too. News flash, this is our CLUB....and we're here to host your children, NOT to cater to every passing whim of your precious cherubs....who are off trampling the cash crop instead of "doing rockets"!

We'll be here with our club long after you're all gone. Act like you're guests, not entitled aristocracy.
Get out of the street.
Stop interfering with others doing rockets.
Stop trampling the cash crop.
DO NOT DRIVE ON THE FIELD WHEN/WHERE YOU ARE TOLD NOT TO!
Pick up your own trash.
 
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Over the last 5 years I've observed more and more throngs of dis-interested, non-involved "rocketry team members from (fill in the school)" more interested in running around grab-a$$ING about while there are maybe 4 folks actually working the rocket, checklist, etc.
Just to be fair, only so many people can crowd around a rocket being prepped.

Though I'm sure at least some of them are just hangers-on. Happens in any group project.
 
Just to be fair, only so many people can crowd around a rocket being prepped.

Though I'm sure at least some of them are just hangers-on. Happens in any group project.

Well aware of that, seen plenty of teams come and go, some are more functional than others......but it's easy to spot the core of half a dozen in the group of 30+ that actually do something.

Doesn't change the fundamental behaviors that I and others see all to often. One prominent east coast venue nearly lost it's access to the black rock of the east coast because every single one of these bad behaviors manifest one particular time about a year ago right in front of the land owner as the student team destroyed a part of his crops, damaged a drainage ditch, and then proceeded to laugh about it......and I assure you it's NO laughing matter. Since then, there's been VERY LITTLE change in their behavior, regardless of school of origin or field that they manifest at.

And yes, I've addressed the most egregious issues both personally and with BOD members.....but it's recurring and rampant......and no reason why mentorship should not also be addressing expectations at the field on launch day.
 
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I do ask teams to come early to launches to help with setup and / or stay to help with cleanup.

I had a team once that kept everyone late waiting for them to launch, and then was going to leave without helping clean up, I strongly suggested they stay and thank the people that waited for them.

They did....
 
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@kramer714, I really like your guide.

One of the things I've seen with teams coming to our site, is that they lack a "systems engineer" on their teams. Some will designate one member as the "chief engineer" for the project, but they seldom have any systems engineering education or training. That SE is the one that should be in charge of everything involved in #2 Meetings, #3 Mentor Communications, and #4 Program Management. Also, any "review" should be considered a milestone that must be completed, have a designated decision authority ( * one person making the decision and as many advisors as needed), and be approved before continuing. All the information presented in the review is presented to that decision authority and they will decide if the project can proceed past that review, or if they need to go back and reworks somethings and present the review again. If it's a readiness review, the club prefect/president should be the decision authority on whether the flight will take place or not. He/she needs input from the project team on launch readiness, not another design review of how the rocket was built. He also needs input from the launch coordinator, RSO, LCO, and if the club is ready to proceed with the launch. He may already know all that, but for completeness and the record, it should all be presented by someone in coordination with the project's system engineer.

One of the duties of the system engineer is coordinate with all outside resources, such as the launch site. They need to communicate to the club running the launch site exactly what they want to do, what they are flying, how high, how big of motor, design details as needed launch rail/pad requirements, and determine what the club constraints are on the launch, pad use, safe distances, allowable altitudes, and down to parking, allowed areas they can access, etc. The easiest way to make sure everything/everyone is on the same page is with a readiness review.

Our club has a constraint that no team can fly anything over 4,000 ft. until they have demonstrated a fully successful use of the recovery system that will fly on the full up project including all payloads, etc. We also require a form explaining exactly how their project works and the recovery system which will include an accurate RockSim or OR file.

* the mentor should probably be included in this because the professors, dept. heads, committees, etc. at the schools usually know nothing about rocketry and really don't have any basis for deciding if the project is on-track for a successful conclusion.
 
FYI just because one of the students milling about and not actively helping to prep the rocket does not mean they aren't a valuable asset to the team. These teams often incorporate many different disciplines especially when it comes to the payloads and writing the reports. In other words, back on campus they are very active members but out in the field they're there just to watch. Nothing wrong with that when you put that kind of time into it.
 
This is very well thought out. I have a different perspective than the normal student since I have been in this hobby for longer than I have been on a team. In fact I was L2 before I even got to college (got it during my senior year of high school).

I can agree with everything said. Including the rule at Battlepark about 4k ft ceiling. My team did not like it or understand why though I did try and explain to them. (Not holding a leadership position due to time means I don't really get listened to as much outside the subteam I am on)

YI just because one of the students milling about and not actively helping to prep the rocket does not mean they aren't a valuable asset to the team. These teams often incorporate many different disciplines especially when it comes to the payloads and writing the reports. In other words, back on campus they are very active members but out in the field they're there just to watch. Nothing wrong with that when you put that kind of time into it.
This is a big one. We dedicate people to do the needed tasks at the field and everyone else is just out to watch. We all had a part in the rocket so why not go out and watch it. Though with travel it tends to not be a large majority of the team that comes out due to logistics. But people see the others just standing around watching and question why there are so many people for one rocket.
 
But people see the others just standing around watching and question why there are so many people for one rocket.
Nope, no one has any issue with those folks. Ever. We get it. They contributed and they're interested and they're respectful of everyone around them and how to act in public.

What we have issue with is those folks (and their parents who come to observe) trampling the crops, throwing trash all over, standing in the road and impeding cars, playing catch in the LP pads area, generally impeding other folks (and other teams) doing their normal rocketry activities, throwing mud clods, driving on the field when told NOT to, etc.

More and more, it's a LOT of the later behavior, less and less of the former, and no one seems to want to address it for whatever reason.

Mentorship of rocketry teams needs to include expectations of how they are to act and respect the hosting club and land owner when they come to the field. Some get that sort of training, most do not. How is this, in any way, too much to ask?

In many cases our continued access to these fields depends on how EVERYONE conducts themselves on launch day. When teams are done, it's the rest of us who are left to clean up the mess and find new fields.
 
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Banzai I must be really lucky. I've never seen teams or parents act like that. Loud and boisterous maybe...Rocketry is pretty exciting after all. I've been doing this mentoring thing over 10 years too. Even when in Huntsville at the USLI Launch I've never seen truly poor behavior like what you describe. Not saying it doesn't happen I've just never run across it and am glad I haven't. I think in the case of Notre Dame I set the expectations early. I always make sure they understand these launches are run by volunteers and they need to help with setting up the pads. I even give them a little safety talk. All of this is done in a positive manner. Maybe that's the difference? I just kinda figure every mentor should be doing that...
 
Nope, no one has any issue with those folks. Ever. We get it. They contributed and they're interested and they're respectful of everyone around them and how to act in public.

What we have issue with is those folks (and their parents who come to observe) trampling the crops, throwing trash all over, standing in the road and impeding cars, playing catch in the LP pads area, generally impeding other folks (and other teams) doing their normal rocketry activities, throwing mud clods, driving on the field when told NOT to, etc.

More and more, it's a LOT of the later behavior, less and less of the former, and no one seems to want to address it for whatever reason.

Mentorship of rocketry teams needs to include expectations of how they are to act and respect the hosting club and land owner when they come to the field. Some get that sort of training, most do not. How is this, in any way, too much to ask?

In many cases our continued access to these fields depends on how EVERYONE conducts themselves on launch day. When teams are done, it's the rest of us who are left to clean up the mess and find new fields.
If you or anyone else is curious as to why these kids are goofing off when the venue leadership does nothing to discourage that, then I’d say the answer probably is in the question.

Emphasis from the adults that they’re running a rocket range, not a catch range or a littering range, and a borrowed one at that, can go a long way to wringing out the proper attentiveness and courtesy to other visitors.
 
I just kinda figure every mentor should be doing that...

Truly, I'm happy for anyone who hasn't encountered this behavior. Even with positive direction, we see it often, and at every field that I've been to in the last long, long while.

Isn't just me, look at the folks that thumbs up my post. I would hardly call them curmudgeonly nor anti-social.

And I agree with your statement above, and that's all that we're asking of any present or would-be mentor.
 
I personally have not experienced that though I have experienced the "why are there so many of you" questions, from admittingly not launch/club personal but just other people at the launches.

Littering is definitely a big issue and my team brings trash bags for us to use. I have also stayed behind at local launches to clean up. Littering though is something that isn't unique to the college teams from my experience. Tons of people just drop tape scraps, plastic from reloads, and other junk on the ground.
 
Just to be fair, only so many people can crowd around a rocket being prepped.

Though I'm sure at least some of them are just hangers-on. Happens in any group project.
but 12 of them magically appear, at the pad, needing to take 50 picture, while the rockets sit, waiting for the gaggle of students to get away from the pad so they can launch......

WIth the students, one reason I require them to all have their level 1 is so they can go out to the high power pads at a launch. Having said that, with the groups I help, I only have two students go to the pad. Both put the rocket on the rail, the one steps back, and verifies the steps on the checklist while the other arms the avionics and any other steps on the checklist, they take one picture and away from the pads.
 
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