Cardstock to practice for Dr. Zooch Saturn V?

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I was delighted to get a Dr. Zooch Saturn V kit for Christmas, but after reading the (fun) instructions, I'm a little worried that I'm in over my head! The four or five Estes kits I've built so far have glue-y fingerprints all over the motor mounts (and the tube, but primer and sanding can fix a lot). I suspect that if I start the kit right now, I'm going to wind up with a very messy little Saturn V.

I thought that perhaps I should play around a bit with a cardstock rocket or two, to figure out techniques and make mistakes where the fix just requires printing out another sheet of cardstock.

A few questions:
* What's a good starting point?
* Where do I get cardstock? I can buy a package of 110lb cardstock for $15 from Amazon. Or a similar container of 85lb cardstock (which seems closer to that included with the Dr. Zooch kit; I'd like to have some backups if I screw it up). Is there a cleverer way to do it? Is there one weight of cardstock that'll work for most everything?
* I love the Little Joe that was just about the last thing posted here, and would be happy to give that a shot, is it likely to be an okay starting point? I guess if I overestimated my skill I'm only out some paper!

Thanks,

Kevin
 
Here are the wraps I drew after I decided to try to make them a little cleaner than the ones that came in my Dr. Zooch Saturn V kit.
You're welcome to use them if you like.
 

Attachments

  • WRAP 1 SAT V DR Zooch 1 copy.pdf
    5.8 MB · Views: 2
  • WRAP 2 SAT V Dr Zooch 2 copy.pdf
    3.4 MB · Views: 1
I would scan the wraps that come with the kit. If you screw one up, you can print more.
The drawings Saluki attached are very well done!

I did a full build with tips on my build blog:
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/DZ Saturn V
The top posts deal with some repairs.
You'll have to scroll down to go back to the beginning.
 

Attachments

  • DZ Saturn V.JPG
    DZ Saturn V.JPG
    401.5 KB · Views: 0
I was delighted to get a Dr. Zooch Saturn V kit for Christmas, but after reading the (fun) instructions, I'm a little worried that I'm in over my head! The four or five Estes kits I've built so far have glue-y fingerprints all over the motor mounts (and the tube, but primer and sanding can fix a lot). I suspect that if I start the kit right now, I'm going to wind up with a very messy little Saturn V.

I thought that perhaps I should play around a bit with a cardstock rocket or two, to figure out techniques and make mistakes where the fix just requires printing out another sheet of cardstock.

A few questions:
* What's a good starting point?
* Where do I get cardstock? I can buy a package of 110lb cardstock for $15 from Amazon. Or a similar container of 85lb cardstock (which seems closer to that included with the Dr. Zooch kit; I'd like to have some backups if I screw it up). Is there a cleverer way to do it? Is there one weight of cardstock that'll work for most everything?
* I love the Little Joe that was just about the last thing posted here, and would be happy to give that a shot, is it likely to be an okay starting point? I guess if I overestimated my skill I'm only out some paper!

Thanks,

Kevin
110 lb and 67 lb cardstock are standard items at office supply stores, Walmart, and elsewhere. https://papermodelingman.com/ has free downloadable plans, rated according to difficulty. How about a complete 1/48 scale Saturn V? :clapping:
 
Thanks so much for the suggestions -- and for the amazing Saturn V wraps! That's awesome -- I was figuring on scanning the wraps that came with the kit in case of the inevitable screw-up, but those are even better.

I guess my question was what weight of paper to buy -- 67 lb or 110 lb (or 80 lb)? I guess it wouldn't break the bank to buy a box of each weight, but I suspect that even with mad cardstock rocket building, it might take me a few years to use it up. I saw that Michael's had some $6 smaller boxes of cardstock, so maybe that's the way to go?

A 1/48 scale Saturn V would definitely put a smile on my face!
 
I would scan the wraps that come with the kit. If you screw one up, you can print more.
The drawings Saluki attached are very well done!

I did a full build with tips on my build blog:
http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/DZ Saturn V
The top posts deal with some repairs.
You'll have to scroll down to go back to the beginning.
I was definitely working my way through that series of posts -- thanks for putting all that up! It was reassuring (although also a little scary) to see the whole thing, and see the amazing results.

I suspect that mine will be a little less beautiful, but doing a few cardstock rockets will probably help me avoid the most obvious beginner mistakes, so that I can make more advanced mistakes.
 
I was definitely working my way through that series of posts -- thanks for putting all that up! It was reassuring (although also a little scary) to see the whole thing, and see the amazing results.

I suspect that mine will be a little less beautiful, but doing a few cardstock rockets will probably help me avoid the most obvious beginner mistakes, so that I can make more advanced mistakes.
The big tip - On a model like this,
Wash your hands before forming cardstock shrouds or adhering wraps.
Dirt and oils is easily transferred onto cardstock.
 
More important than the weight is the surface finish, typically the 110 weight has a smoother surface and prints these detailed patterns at higher resolutions better than on a lightly textured 60 weight paper. You might compare them for yourself if you can notice any difference on your printer.
 
I've found that white glue dries clearer than wood glue. Might help mitigate the prints or oozes.
good point. Also a glue stick dries clear and is easier to spread a consistent thin layer over larger regions or glue tabs.

Dr Zooch kits are fun to build, some of my favorites:
Screenshot 2023-01-18 at 10.27.36 AM.png

another fun-size Saturn V:
Screenshot 2023-01-18 at 10.27.57 AM.png


fun to build, and also to fly!
 
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PS - dont put glue on the printed side that says GLUE TAB facing outwards. Put the glue on inside of the other mating part facing inwards where the GLUE TAB will contact. That is much easier to get the parts into position and not get glue on your fingers, since the glue is on the inside.
 
More important than the weight is the surface finish, typically the 110 weight has a smoother surface and prints these detailed patterns at higher resolutions better than on a lightly textured 60 weight paper. You might compare them for yourself if you can notice any difference on your printer.
Before running cardstock through the printer -
Feel both sides of the cardstock. Some manufacturers produce paper with one side smoother than the other.
You want your printing on the smooth side.
 
PS - dont put glue on the printed side that says GLUE TAB facing outwards. Put the glue on inside of the other mating part facing inwards where the GLUE TAB will contact. That is much easier to get the parts into position and not get glue on your fingers, since the glue is on the inside.
I agree! - I didn't start doing this until after years of building.
From my blog:
"TIP: I don't put wet glue on the glue tab. Instead, I rub a glue stick onto the opposite inside (tab area) of the shroud.
This gives me more control over where the glue goes (and ends up) when the shroud is formed."

Mars Snooper II 28.JPG
 
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The Dr. Zooch Saturn V instructions (see attached) are very specific to use flat white as a base coat and just as specific to use gloss white. What am I missing? Or should I just use primer and then gloss white? These say that the decals stick better to the gloss white, but much of this is the cardstock not the decals.

thanks for any guidance provided.
 

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  • dr zooch saturn V paint instruction.jpg
    dr zooch saturn V paint instruction.jpg
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The Dr. Zooch Saturn V instructions (see attached) are very specific to use flat white as a base coat and just as specific to use gloss white. What am I missing? Or should I just use primer and then gloss white? These say that the decals stick better to the gloss white, but much of this is the cardstock not the decals.

thanks for any guidance provided.
In areas with decals you can use a glossy base so the decals look better. When you are done, you can go over the whole rocket with a clear Matte or Satin/semi gloss or glossy, for whatever appearance your prefer.
 
Thanks, what’s best under the card stock?
I think I just used the same glossy white paint. Maybe you can roughen it up a little under the wrap portions with some fine sandpaper before you glue the wraps in place so the glue can stick better, or mask it off when you paint:

more detailed build on the model rocket building blog here:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/DZ Saturn V
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/12/dr-zooch-saturn-v-build-step-9-jumping.html
He even included a tip from me!
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2016/09/dr-zooch-saturn-v-tip.html
 
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I think I just used the same glossy white paint. Maybe you can roughen it up a little under the wrap portions with some fine sandpaper before you glue the wraps in place so the glue can stick better, or mask it off when you paint:

more detailed build on the model rocket building blog here:
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/search/label/DZ Saturn V
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2012/12/dr-zooch-saturn-v-build-step-9-jumping.html
He even included a tip from me!
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2016/09/dr-zooch-saturn-v-tip.html
Thanks very much!
 
Lots of fantastic insight to building Dr Z kits! The wraps can look a little intimidating at first - those versions Saluki posted would be great to use for practice, print off a couple, paint a length of scrap tube and work on your technique. I’ve built a few of my stash of Dr Z kits - not as many as the experienced builders in this thread - but my other piece of advice is don’t let the kits psyche you out, they really are designed to yield great results with just a bit more skill and focus than a 3/4FNC conventional “beginner” kit. And you’ll not find a scale kit of any kind with this level of detail that fly like a Zooch rocket.
 
When choosing which cardstock to get, watch out for whether pound weights are of the same basis. Weight is measured as 500 sheets (1 ream) of the designated basis size, per the image (dark blue is text, heavy outline is tag). Fo example, a paper rated 108 lb tag is the same actual weight as 65 lb cover. Some papers, especially those that are tag basis, might not even indicate which basis they are!
paper basis weight illustration.png
Much easier if you can compare by grams per square meter (gsm), which is universal.

Good point above about surface smoothness, it makes a big difference for inkjet print crispness. Cover paper should be plenty smooth. Art papers are sturdier for the same weight and very nice to work with in terms of shaping and gluing, though often their surface is textured.

If you'd like to build a small non-flying practice model, this free LTV Scout B plan over at papermodelers.com is lovely. Also, if upscaled, it could be converted to fly.
LTV Scout - 1.png
 
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