Canard glider plans?

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Rktman

Eric Noguchi
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Anyone know where I can find plans (or kits) for canard gliders? I'd like to get into the more interesting and challenging aspects of building/flying BGs/RGs. I know of only one plan/template sheet, and it's for the Beakers 2. (It's not clearly spelled out whether the canards are attached canted at an angle, and what that exact angle is, so I'd rather have a more proven glider with clearer templates and build instructions).

Sadly, Edmonds used to have quite a number of canard glider kits but they've since closed down and days of searching for canard glider construction plans have turned up nothing else. Thanks in advance for any info you can point me toward.
 

Rktman

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http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/BRB_contest/GliderPlan/Half-A_BoostGlider.html although I see the plans link seems to be broken....

I'm sure George and others will chime in with a wealth of designs....

Frank

This was one of the more frustrating ones that I came across since all the links are broken and enlarging the plan thumbnail image only resulted in a big blurry smear. I tried going to George's site but apparently it's no longer there. Would love to build it since George's stuff was not only legendary, it was well thought out and worked.
 

Rktman

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Thanks, this is a gold mine! These should keep me busy for quite a while. The deployment mechanism in Tally's Swan in particular looks fascinating...it'll take a bit of digesting to figure out exactly how it has to be constructed but I'm stoked over the whole nostalgia of these early mechanisms and how ingenious they were for the time. Definitely not something you'd see at very many (if any) club launches. Gonna have fun with this one.
 

Rktman

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Here is a catapult glider that only needs you to change the rubber band hook for your favorite pop pod attachment method.

kj

Thanks man, this one should be a fast easy build--perfect for getting my feet wet with canard designs and getting a feel for how they work. At this point I'm more interested in learning and having fun with sport models vs competition versions so I'll be happy with anything that launches straight and glides at least as well as a paper airplane (or with a sink rate thereabouts).
 

Amsterdam

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No new plans to offer here, but I was just reading an ancient article mentioning canard designs starts at page ten, mentions canards half way down on page 11.
 

Rktman

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Are there any guidelines or rules available for designing canard gliders? Online searches really haven't turned up anything,
and I'm fairly sure the rules differ from "standard" wing-up-front-stab-rear gliders. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

Rktman

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georgegassaway

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Sorry, I didn't see this post till now. Regarding the glider plan on my website:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/BRB_contest/GliderPlan/Half-A_BoostGlider.html

The broken link goes back to when I had my website on "homepage.mac", then "overnight" Apple killed homepage for "the cloud" and I was left scrambling for awhile.

Later I got a real host, thanks to Tony Reynolds, and named my site GeorgesRockets, but didn't change that old hard link to the plans.

So, here is a link to the canard glider PDF plan that works:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/BRB_contest/GliderPlan/GliderPlan.pdf

and Jpegs from the PDF below.








This was made up mostly as a design for a "club kit model" that could be used in 1/2A Boost Glide at some NAR contests. I made up a limited number of kits, sold to club members at cost (or less).

Not a top-level glider, but certainly easy to build and reasonably reliable. A big feature of the kit was the use of the cast "L" hooks for the pop-pod and glider to attach. I have not made those cast L Hooks for awhile but might start making them up again.

There are a few other glider plans on my website, though the above glider is the only canard.

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/ContestPlans.htm

Also, this sport Concorde model plan from 1980 (using a Sky Dart type internal pod) that some others have "cloned", published in the July 1980 issue of the Model Rocketeer:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/Plans/Sport/Concorde.htm




BTW - I've built a few Delta Katts, at least two in the early 70's as MPC kits. Sometime in the early to mid 1990's. I made a D12 powered 250% scale-up, and flew it at a launch in Phoenix, Arizona, where designer G. Harry Stine saw it fly (Man I wish I had gotten a pic of him with the model).

Also built at least a couple of "Valkyries". The first one from the plans in Model Rocketry Magazine. Then later, 1977 or so, a larger one using an AVI "E11.8" engine, as a rocket glider. To try to make it boost straight without looping, the canard slid to the rear for boost, and was flat. When ejection burned the thread, a rubber band pulled the canard to slide forward and a pitch control surface deflected "down" to pull the nose up. However on its one and only flight, while it was boosting straight, the outer half of the right wing shredded off on boost, and while the canard did deploy, the rest of the glider spiral dived into the ground. Of the big E power or above Valkyries I saw (or read of) Bruce Blackistone try at NARAMs, every one of them had a disaster of some sort. Although it was mostly lack of good engine choices, like an F10 that shredded one, three clustered D12's that shredded one, and one staged with a D20 booster motor (got off to a nice start), then ignited an F7 motor that did not have a lot of thrust for that model and its 8 second burn time resulted in the model slowly arcing horizontal and then down crashing before burnout. He may also have done one with an Enerjet F67, which was begging for a shred. Just were not good engine choices for the size of glider he was attempting, built as it was. The old Aerotech "F15" motor would have been pretty good for those F size models he tried.
 
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Rktman

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Sorry, I didn't see this post till now. Regarding the glider plan on my website:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/BRB_contest/GliderPlan/Half-A_BoostGlider.html

The broken link goes back to when I had my website on "homepage.mac", then "overnight" Apple killed homepage for "the cloud" and I was left scrambling for awhile.

Later I got a real host, thanks to Tony Reynolds, and named my site GeorgesRockets, but didn't change that old hard link to the plans.

So, here is a link to the canard glider PDF plan that works:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/BRB_contest/GliderPlan/GliderPlan.pdf

and Jpegs from the PDF below.








This was made up mostly as a design for a "club kit model" that could be used in 1/2A Boost Glide at some NAR contests. I made up a limited number of kits, sold to club members at cost (or less).

Not a top-level glider, but certainly easy to build and reasonably reliable. A big feature of the kit was the use of the cast "L" hooks for the pop-pod and glider to attach. I have not made those cast L Hooks for awhile but might start making them up again.

There are a few other glider plans on my website, though the above glider is the only canard.

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/CONTEST/ContestPlans.htm

Also, this sport Concorde model plan from 1980 (using a Sky Dart type internal pod) that some others have "cloned", published in the July 1980 issue of the Model Rocketeer:

http://georgesrockets.com/GRP/Plans/Sport/Concorde.htm




BTW - I've built a few Delta Katts, at least two in the early 70's as MPC kits. Sometime in the early to mid 1990's. I made a D12 powered 250% scale-up, and flew it at a launch in Phoenix, Arizona, where designer G. Harry Stine saw it fly (Man I wish I had gotten a pic of him with the model).

Also built at least a couple of "Valkyries". The first one from the plans in Model Rocketry Magazine. Then later, 1977 or so, a larger one using an AVI "E11.8" engine, as a rocket glider. To try to make it boost straight without looping, the canard slid to the rear for boost, and was flat. When ejection burned the thread, a rubber band pulled the canard to slide forward and a pitch control surface deflected "down" to pull the nose up. However on its one and only flight, while it was boosting straight, the outer half of the right wing shredded off on boost, and while the canard did deploy, the rest of the glider spiral dived into the ground. Of the big E power or above Valkyries I saw (or read of) Bruce Blackistone try at NARAMs, every one of them had a disaster of some sort. Although it was mostly lack of good engine choices, like an F10 that shredded one, three clustered D12's that shredded one, and one staged with a D20 booster motor (got off to a nice start), then ignited an F7 motor that did not have a lot of thrust for that model and its 8 second burn time resulted in the model slowly arcing horizontal and then down crashing before burnout. He may also have done one with an Enerjet F67, which was begging for a shred. Just were not good engine choices for the size of glider he was attempting, built as it was. The old Aerotech "F15" motor would have been pretty good for those F size models he tried.
Oh man I'm glad to get this! I really lament the lack of canard kits and designs right now, I personally think they're fascinating...and maybe more challenging to design than the "normal" wings-up-front-tail-in-rear gliders. There seems to be a lack of design info out there relating to canards as well. My thanks to kjohnson for that link to one of the few sources of valuable design principles for RC canards that can be adapted for B/G use.


I notice your B/G doesn't use any main wing dihedral. Is this because it's a swept wing? I'm also surprised (or maybe more correctly mystified) that your canard wing is mounted with an angle-of-attack. Wouldn't that cause looping on boost (or at least have an affect on an ideally vertical launch?).


I downloaded plans for the "Disaster 17-B Valkyrie". Is this the same one you're referring to? If I'm reading the plan correctly it's a big glider (with a fuselage lenght of 25"). It doesn't have a sliding canard wing though. I'm hoping to scale up to larger canard gliders as I gain experience and knowlege with the smaller models. I'm sure complexity increases as size and weight goes up, but there's just something exciting and impressive about watching a large bird glide slowly and majestically down. I'm sure that's how you and every spectator felt whenever they witnessed your Great Dane series launch.


Thanks again for the pdf and repairing the links. I'm sure a lot of others out there will appreciate the plans as well. So glad to hear from you and see that you're still active in the sport George!
 

kjohnson

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There were lots of versions of the Disaster Valkyries as Bruce changed things to make them better over the years. The 17-B had pop-down control surfaces on the canards held flat for boost by the motor pod.
If you build it, you get bonus points for including a decal of Attila the NAR-HUN as shown on the plan. :)

kj
 

Rktman

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There were lots of versions of the Disaster Valkyries as Bruce changed things to make them better over the years. The 17-B had pop-down control surfaces on the canards held flat for boost by the motor pod.
If you build it, you get bonus points for including a decal of Attila the NAR-HUN as shown on the plan. :)

kj
Haha absolutely have to include that decal if I'm going to the effort of building this version (it actually doesn't look that difficult compared to some designs I've seen).
 

Rktman

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Just a shoutout for discount Rocketry's Quick Fly canard glider. I wanted to get some experience in canard design and building and didn't really expect much from this small glider. But it's definitely a champ. It out performed the 3 other "regular" wing-in-front-tail-in-back gliders I test flew on the same day. It put in a 1 minute 15 second flight on the smallest recommended engine (A8-3) and I had to sprint to avoid losing it. At only 8" long with a 6" total wingspan, it's barely larger than a paper airplane and glides like a dream. And the interlocking tab and slot construction made it a no-brainer to perfectly align parts.
 

BABAR

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Edmonds looks to be Out of Production, but some kits still available
http://store.heavenlyhobbies.com/02-033-0009.html

I don’t know about this vendor, bit I had this two stage double boost glider (both booster and sustainer) glide back, and it worked pretty well. Both are canard types. It is a combo of the CiCi and a booster

You may be able to find a few others from HobbyLinc. I had one with an adjustable canard that had elevators that kicked in at ejection.

The CiCi itself is actually a great, simple, easy build boost glider, canard type.
 

Rktman

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Edmonds looks to be Out of Production, but some kits still available
http://store.heavenlyhobbies.com/02-033-0009.html

I don’t know about this vendor, bit I had this two stage double boost glider (both booster and sustainer) glide back, and it worked pretty well. Both are canard types. It is a combo of the CiCi and a booster

You may be able to find a few others from HobbyLinc. I had one with an adjustable canard that had elevators that kicked in at ejection.

The CiCi itself is actually a great, simple, easy build boost glider, canard type.

Thanks, that two stager is definitely a unique one-of-a-kind! Think I'll call to make sure it's still in stock. Unfortunatley I've had a bit of bad luck with the other vendor hobylinc regarding 6 months of foot-dragging on replacing returned defective merchandise. I'd rather go with Heavenly Hobbies, as I notice they also have OOP gliders from QCR which I've always wanted to try. Appreciate you pointing HH out to me.
 

Rktman

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This may be several decades old but to me it's still a gem and fresh, as I haven't yet found any other manufacturer offering current-day canard models other than Discount Rocketry's Quick Fly mentioned earlier. There doesn't seem to have been any major changes or innovations in canard design since the "early days", and from the plans I've since seen via this thread, I have to admire how quite a few of those early designs were pretty ingenius in how they actuated the canard and/or elevator flaps. That did add to the build complexity though.

What I like about this Beakers 2 model is that it looks like a simple build. No moving parts. Found this photo of it all dressed up. Not sure where he got the stars and stripes monokote but it looks amazing.
 

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BABAR

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If you try Edmonds stuff, follow the instructions when they say do NOT mess with rounding the fins. They are solid flyers with square edges and all.
 

Rktman

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@georgegassaway Regarding your larger gliders like the Great Dane, I've been wondering for a long time
what method you used to pull the "lynch pin" holding your swing wings back? You
mentioned a strong rubber band pulled it, but what kept the rubber band from doing
so until apogee? georgegassaway
 

Rktman

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If you try Edmonds stuff, follow the instructions when they say do NOT mess with rounding the fins. They are solid flyers with square edges and all.

Thanks for the warning! Though I don't understand the dynamics of how doing
so would affect the aerodynamics, I believe it could since I suppose rounding/airfoiling
could mess up the interactive balance between the canard/wing lifting surfaces?


At any rate I've heard that Edmonds really did their homework and thoroughly
tested their designs before putting them on the market. So if they advised against
doing something, they must have had a good reason for it.
 
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