Can Aircraft Become *Too* Automated?

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Mach7, what is the highest that you have ever flown manually? Do airline pilot's ever hand fly during cruise, or is it too hard to handle in the thin air?

 

[Fred22]

The new Virgin galactic spacecraft has very little automation in it's suborbital hop and no fly by wire at all. Check out the new air and space magazine
Cheers
fred

 

[user 13]

Mach7, what is the highest that you have ever flown manually? Do airline pilot's ever hand fly during cruise, or is it too hard to handle in the thin air?

I've hand flown at FL410 in a C-5 and FL400 in the 737. They fly fine. The 727 was a hand full if the yaw damper was not working at altitude. The MD-80 was a dream to hand fly, it did not even need to have its yaw damper operating. Modern Jets have a very benign(SP?) flight characteristic throughout the flight envelope.

2 years ago in the sim we did high altitude stalls, FL330, and except for taking more altitude to recover the MD-80 was very controllable during the whole event.

We can fly without the auto pilot, and do. If the autopilot is inop we still go. We then have a more restrictive crew duty time.

 

[Gym_Class_Hero]

Well, I guess they make all modern aircraft fly the same to make the transition between them easier. Old aircraft are more fun to fly, I've flown everything from BAC 1-11s to A380s in FSX and I prefer the old ones (yeah, it's a sim, but a pretty realistic one).

The industry has lost it's glamore. that's why I decided not to become an airline pilot. I remember in Boston, I was on an airport bus talking with a couple of UAL pilots, and I told them about my plans, and they pretty much told me to give up because the industry will screw you over in the end. It's sad to see what commercial aviation has become.

 

[Bravo52]

The industry has lost it's glamore. that's why I decided not to become an airline pilot. I remember in Boston, I was on an airport bus talking with a couple of UAL pilots, and I told them about my plans, and they pretty much told me to give up because the industry will screw you over in the end. It's sad to see what commercial aviation has become.

Not really......someone has to drive the bus. Commercial aviation is just that, commercial aviation. Most comm pilots talk about how they got there, not what they are doing there. The glamore days are gone, but mostly because aviation has gotten better....that and now they have stewards......

 

[user 13]

Well, I guess they make all modern aircraft fly the same to make the transition between them easier. Old aircraft are more fun to fly, I've flown everything from BAC 1-11s to A380s in FSX and I prefer the old ones (yeah, it's a sim, but a pretty realistic one).

The industry has lost it's glamore. that's why I decided not to become an airline pilot. I remember in Boston, I was on an airport bus talking with a couple of UAL pilots, and I told them about my plans, and they pretty much told me to give up because the industry will screw you over in the end. It's sad to see what commercial aviation has become.

It's true Airline flying is different than it once was. I don't know if I would recommend anyone to take it up. The United guys are very bitter. They took 50% paycuts and lost retirement while the top management gets 10's of millions in bonuses each year. And they have not made money since 2001!
Where is the logic in that. They used the bankruptcy court to decimate the employee's, slash the lease rates on the aircraft and gates, and eliminate most of the debt. What did the executives do with the money? they gave it to themselves!

As for older aircraft, it's true they sometimes have more personality. But modern aircraft are very good. Personality usually comes from bad/weak aerodynamics. Airliners should not have personalities, they have a job to do.

On the subject of simulators. The modern full 6 axis motion simulators are very good, But I can tell I am flying a sim and not the real aircraft. As good as they are they still don't fly exactly like the aircraft. They are great for what they do, training emergency procedures.

 

[Gym_Class_Hero]

I guess your right about the drawbacks of personalities, you pay for them through additional training and excess fuel costs. But after a while it must get monotonous... The only place you experience personality anymore is GA, which is why I'm still gonna get my pilot's liscence. If I can't make aviation a career I'll still make it a hobby. Those United pilots are probably the most wise men on earth.

Yeah, sims don't beat the real thing, but they do come close. I've even been thinking of building a home simulator cockpit for the BAC 1-11, so far the greatest plane I've ever flown in a sim, ever. It's so easy to handle, it's a shame that only a handful of airworthy airframes still exist today. I just hope that there will be one left in the future for me (my dream is to one day own a private BAC 1-11 and make it a flying museum ).

How would pilot-less airliners effect the GA industry? Can robots share the sky with human pilots?

 

[Bravo52]

I was TDY some time ago to one of the AF's reasearch labs and in it, there were some extremely advanced simulators. The basic sim consisted of a full cockpit out on a pole in the center of a dome that had visual projected all around. 360 degrees of full video......very nice. Anywhere you looked, there were visuals.

During one of the experiments, they brought in one of the better F-16 pilots in the world and ran simulations aginst enemy fighters generated by the computer. Not just any computers, but Sun Super computer type computers. The live pilot lost a few engagementes at first, but was able to handle anything the computer put up (use Spinal Tap voice and say "all the way to 11"). Then after about a week, the live pilot started getting his butt waxed....... He thought the computer had taken a while to "learn" all of his techniques. But what really happened, was the technicians just hooked the sim up to another live pilot in another sim! One of his squadron mates.

I just happen to be there when the guy first came out of the sim......He was not in the best mood. When he found out it wasn't the computer......it got worse........ The computer engineers figured out that the human brain was able to not "out think" a computer in the time span of the merge, but was able to better anticipate the actions of the computer........ pretty darn cool if you ask me.