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Can AeroTech Mirage (Modified) Be Used For L2??

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maesoph

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I've got an AeroTech Mirage that went CATO and destroyed the lower half of the rocket. It's originally made for 2G 29mm motors but I modified it to use 3 grain without issue. Instead of just repairing it, I decided to look at upgrading it so I could get my L2 with it also. I have the stuff to upgrade it to 38mm motors and use it for Level 2 certification. It's TTW fins and all, but still cardboard tubes, but pretty darn tough cardboard tubes.. Looking to launch with a J270 motor. Will this rocket survive???

Mike
 

Steve Shannon

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I’m sure it could be made to work for the an L2 rocket, but I don’t know if I would feel comfortable doing it. I think the fins would be the potential failure point.
 

CoyoteNumber2

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Run the Mirage fins through FinSim and see how the flutter and divergence velocities compare to your flight sims on a J270.
 

DaveW6DPS

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Pushing a low power rocket with a J motor is generally not a good idea. The Mirage is a long rocket with thin body tubes and I would not modify it for a J.

If you cannot afford a suitable rocket, can you afford the motor prices for level 2?
 

Nytrunner

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If you cannot afford a suitable rocket, can you afford the motor prices for level 2?
Cost could be a factor, but the OP may just be interested in taking on an interesting design and build challenge.

To the OP, pay attention to the wiggle of the coupler joints. That can be the killer of long skinnies. If the tubes feel a bit thin, wouldn't hurt to stick extra coupler in the airframe down by the top of the motor mount.

Whatever happens, you'll get some height on the J so a form of dual-dep and/or a tracker could save recovery trouble.

Good luck!
 

blackjack2564

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Yes it will survive if you shorten it, cut fin tails off and DD it. Mine flew on J-350's no issue after mods.

Edit: I did not use it for my L-2. I built a big 4inch DD paper rocket for that, a Binder Galaxy.

I modified the Mirage , due to damage from bad flight. 2 fin tips broke after I stuck the landing in muddy field. Shortly after,gust of wind blew fincan over, breaking 2 fin tips off.
 
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tomsteve

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it would be a great project but i highly encourage keeping an L2 cert a bit simpler.
the loc precision 2.6" tubing is quite a bit tougher,too.
 

Andrew_ASC

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AF8411BE-40CE-41F5-BAAF-2EC0D5F2755B.jpeg

Not regretting buying a MAC Hyper 54 for an L2 cert later this year. It’s 54mm min diameter dual deploy and eats any J-L motor on the market. I tried modifying a Sandhawk kit for L2 and ended up being disappointed and lost confidence that a K motor wasn’t feasible. I later wanted a 54mm hole for L2 rockets.

Jim says it can be done. The question is after your cert do you want more from the L2 impulse range? I’ll side with Batmite on this one. Why risk an expensive tracker and dual deploy altimeter in a lesser capable modified to marginal rocket?

If you’re trying to L2 on a budget I have more respect for PVC tube fin builds. My opinion.
 
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jjwb22101

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Yes and no. If you rebuilt it with a proper 38mm motor mount (get some proper wood centering rings), figured out a way to strengthen the fins (probably replace them with glassed plywood or all-fiberglass fins), strengthen the body tubes (a number of methods have been suggested for this already), and get some longer couplers to prevent wiggle, it would probably hold together with a J270 or similar. Then you just have to figure out recovery from an apogee of in the 5-6k' range, which isn't trivial (I'm assuming you'll probably end up with something that weighs in the 1.5 kg neighborhood empty). You'll have to either use a JLCR or modify it for dual deploy, and you'll almost certainly want a tracker. At that point, I'm not sure it would be worth it for a cert flight. You'll probably end up spending just as much money on the project as you would if you had gotten a 4" kit and gone from there, and what you'd end up with would only somewhat resemble the original kit you started with. (I'm doing a somewhat similar project with an Estes Scion kit I got back when they were super cheap, and at this point the only things that haven't been swapped out for something beefier are the fins, which I'm fiberglassing)
 

Wallace

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Pretty much agree with all above. If your intent is to try to save $, I doubt it'll work out very well. On the other hand, if you're doing it to challenge yourself then have at 'er. It is a hobby after all...
 

BSNW

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If you want to fly Aerotech rockets, why get a level 2? Level 2 is for flying level 2 rockets.
Some Aerotech rockets most certainly can do a small J motor. I have launched larger motors on paper rockets with surface mounted basswood fins many times. Just because it goes faster does not mean it needs fiberglass, forged eye bolts, Kevlar, 1/2 thick fins and aerospace expoxy. Good Lord....at least it won't be a 9 pound sub-orbital capable rocket launched on a tiny J350. For comparison....there is a guy who I have seen (twice) launch a paper rocket, made with wood glue only with broad 1/8 ply fins....launch this thing (of beauty) on a long burn CTI L motor.....with no issues.

IMO the culture in HP rocketry is speeding to "over build and over kill" on everything.
 

cbrarick

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We routinely see I's and J's fly in a rocket made from the blue foam you can get at home depot - and that's his only building material in the rocket. He uses a teddy bear as nose weight. I LSO'd one of the first, and it had no name so I called it "Foamy" and now it, and it succeeding foam creations ( Foamy 2, etc.) are part of METRA and CATO lore

So why not a paper rocket with a proper nose cone and some fins? the only mod I'd be tempted to make outside of the mmt would be to use tightbond to put it together with. http://www.rocketmaterials.org/datastore/fins/Fin_Cans/index.php
 

Nytrunner

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the only mod I'd be tempted to make outside of the mmt would be to use tightbond to put it together with.
I'm a proponent of woodglue wherever it will work, but I'll point out the. Irate has plastic fins. Hell need some sort of epoxy or plastic bonder for those.
 

tomsteve

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When AeroTech was developing it's line of kits, we spec'd the 2.6" tubing to the same standards as LOC.
which helped me in rebuilding the booster of my mirage a couple of times. then when i hung it in a tree and it got soaked, i now have a loctech/aeroprecision mirage.:)
 

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