California launch system regulations?

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RocketRev

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I've received a question from a club in California about Wilson F/X compliance with California Regulations concerning launch systems. They are looking to purchase a wireless launch system. I was told that this is in the section of the CalPyro Handbook regulations for launching M motors and larger. I've attached the doc that they sent me. After I read thru the short 2-page pdf, I find that I have many questions.

1) Are these CA regulations real?

2) Do clubs in CA need a licensed pyrotechnic operator to fly M+ motors?

3) What is meant by "firing code reduced to writing"?

4) Must all rockets with electronic deployment charges in CA now have remote arming/disarming capabilities?

5) Who approves designs for launch systems to be used in launching rockets in California?

6) Are clubs in California who already have launch systems in use, responsible to have their launch systems retrofitted to meet these new regulations?

Wilson F/X launch systems have been being used for years in California and I've got more CA clubs asking about purchasing launch systems. But this isn't going to just affect WFX. Its going to affect every manufacturer of HP launch systems and every club that flies HP in California.

I'm 1900 miles away and am looking for some local direction.

Brad, the "Rocket Rev.," Wilson
Wilson F/X Digital Control Systems

ps: I received this a couple of days ago and I only wish that this was an April Fools Joke.
 

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Neutron95

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I've been looking into getting my Calpyro certs at some point. I'm not aware of any requirements for the launch controller that would mean that the Wilson system couldn't be used.

You need to get a Calpyro cert to fly larger than an M or to do experimental motors in California. Most people that I know of don't bother, and just launch at FAR, where you can operate under their cert.

The relevant part of the regulations says this about launch controllers:

(b) Rocket motor launching shall be by remote electrical means only, and under the supervision and control of an individual properly licensed in accordance with this chapter.

Technically a Calpyro rockets class 3 cert is necessary to put on a high power launch, but as far as I know it isn't really enforced.

Here is a link to the Calpyro laws.
 

hball55

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I've received a question from a club in California about Wilson F/X compliance with California Regulations concerning launch systems. They are looking to purchase a wireless launch system. I was told that this is in the section of the CalPyro Handbook regulations for launching M motors and larger. I've attached the doc that they sent me. After I read thru the short 2-page pdf, I find that I have many questions.

1) Are these CA regulations real?

2) Do clubs in CA need a licensed pyrotechnic operator to fly M+ motors?

3) What is meant by "firing code reduced to writing"?

4) Must all rockets with electronic deployment charges in CA now have remote arming/disarming capabilities?

5) Who approves designs for launch systems to be used in launching rockets in California?

6) Are clubs in California who already have launch systems in use, responsible to have their launch systems retrofitted to meet these new regulations?

Wilson F/X launch systems have been being used for years in California and I've got more CA clubs asking about purchasing launch systems. But this isn't going to just affect WFX. Its going to affect every manufacturer of HP launch systems and every club that flies HP in California.

I'm 1900 miles away and am looking for some local direction.

Brad, the "Rocket Rev.," Wilson
Wilson F/X Digital Control Systems

ps: I received this a couple of days ago and I only wish that this was an April Fools Joke.
Yes, they are for real. I believe you also need a pyro 3 license to transport high power motors to and from a launch in California. Of course, possessing a high power motor anywhere but at a launch begs the question “where are you storing it.” Meaning a LEUP is required if you possess a high power motor anywhere but at a launch, and you need to use it at that launch. Don’t yell at me if I’m wrong, just correct me.
 

AHansom

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Sorry for scope creeping the thread a little. Corect me if Im wrong. I thought winning the lawsuit about rocket motors being explosive meant we don't nead an LEUP anymore? I know CA is an island of stupid rules but that was a federal ruling. The Cal Pyro 3 is a different requirement.
 

prfesser

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Sorry for scope creeping the thread a little. Corect me if Im wrong. I thought winning the lawsuit about rocket motors being explosive meant we don't nead an LEUP anymore? I know CA is an island of stupid rules but that was a federal ruling. The Cal Pyro 3 is a different requirement.
You are correct, the lawsuit removed APCP from the Orange Book, so a federal LEUP is no longer needed for it. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that states or localities can't affix whatever regulations they see fit. So yes, a state or locality could require that APCP rocket motors be handled only by XYZ persons, or whomever/whatever.

Best -- Terry
 

mikec

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Obviously motor vendors like Aerotech and CTI have figured out how to interact with CA OSFM to get their motors approved, but I think for electronics the process would be so nebulous as to be impossible, if it's even required in the first place. IANAL but it seems like the burden of complying with local laws falls on the user in this case.

Be nice if this thread didn't degenerate into the usual discussion about California, we've heard it all before.
 

UhClem

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I've received a question from a club in California about Wilson F/X compliance with California Regulations concerning launch systems. They are looking to purchase a wireless launch system. I was told that this is in the section of the CalPyro Handbook regulations for launching M motors and larger. I've attached the doc that they sent me. After I read thru the short 2-page pdf, I find that I have many questions.

1) Are these CA regulations real?
Looking at the link to the full set of regulations I see at the head of that section a rule on applicability, 1010
This article applies to all rockets except approved model rockets as defined in Article 14 and experimental high power rockets and experimental high power rocket motors as defined in Article 2.
This excludes most anything covered by NFPA 1122 and 1127. Rockets with non-commercial motors or motor impulse greater than M (10,240N-s) are covered in this section.

So the shunting requirements in this section do not apply to most rockets. It does appear to apply to all non-commercial motors (aka TRA Research) and rockets with really big motors. But I wouldn't worry about that until I had built the required bunker.
 

tfish

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then it gets harder/and more complicated... once you look up the states definitions



(3) Experimental High Power Rocket. Non-professional rockets which are propelled by commercially manufactured high-power solid propellant rocket motors.
(4) Experimental High Power Rocket Motor. A State Fire Marshal approved, commercially manufactured rocket propulsion device containing a solid propellant charge wherein all the ingredients are pre-mixed and which produces more than 160 Newton-seconds (36 lb.-seconds) but shall not exceed 10,240 Newton-seconds (2302.2 lb.-seconds) of total impulse.

Tony
 

rocket_troy

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I'm reminded of an old saying. California, the cereal bowl of the country. It's full of flakes, fruits and nuts.
Just as well Newton wasn't a local or our 3rd law might very well have stated:

For every action, there's an equal and opposite bureaucratic regulation.

TP
 

icyclops

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I'm reminded of an old saying. California, the cereal bowl of the country. It's full of flakes, fruits and nuts.
Yes, and everyone in Marin Co. has a hot tube....heard it all...thank you for that comment. Yikes.
 

Tech 68

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I'd recommend getting in touch with Rick Maschek through Friends of Amateur Rocketry. They have been dealing with California's Office of the State Fire Marshall for quite some time now, and may have suggestions that will help solve any regulatory problems. They also can help with getting certified as a Cal Pyro Rockets 1, 2, or 3.

 

AHansom

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Big tech must have deleted my response saying the country better get ready for CA laws for all!!!! :confused:
Being from and living in CA I know what Im saying.
 

Ez2cDave

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1) Are these CA regulations real?

Brad, the "Rocket Rev.," Wilson
Wilson F/X Digital Control Systems

ps: I received this a couple of days ago and I only wish that this was an April Fools Joke.
Brad,

Coming from the state of California, nothing would surprise me . . . However, I think those regulations may be for "amateur rocketry" and not "traditional" HPR, at least, not yet !

Dave F.
 

rokit

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2) Do clubs in CA need a licensed pyrotechnic operator to fly M+ motors?
My understanding is the same as several people have stated, that someone with a Cal Pyro Rockets license is needed to supervise any high power launching, whether at a club launch or with a small group or individually, similar to how Tripoli launches are supervised by a Range Safety Officer.
 

RocketRev

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Thanks for all the great responses.

There are already a few clubs using Wilson F/X in California, including FAR, and none of them has asked for any of the special "shunting" that this particular club thinks is necessary. I was just looking for any clarification from the CAL/Rocketry Community and you all have come thru for me.

I don't know which way the club will end up going, but Dan and I can comply with this shunting process. I was just wanting to see if you all were reading the regs in the same way that I was: not applicable till Larger than M motors.

And I was wondering who it is that decides if a launch system can be CAL Certified or not. That seems to be the real issue if you ask me. Any more thoughts?

Brad
 

cerving

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I don't think there's a "CAL Certified" launch system qualification at all... it just has to follow NFPA/NAR/TRA rules. Meaning that it has to have a removable arming mechanism and a momentary push button launching switch... specifics are left up to the designer.

Honestly, stop all the bagging on CA... the few extra rules are not a big deal. I launch at NV fairly often, and AZ occasionally, and there is essentially no difference in the way launches are conducted there vs. CA. The most restrictive rules are at ROC, and that's not because of any CA rules, it's because the size of the club dictates an extra level of discipline in launch procedures.
 

tfish

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Thanks for all the great responses.

There are already a few clubs using Wilson F/X in California, including FAR, and none of them has asked for any of the special "shunting" that this particular club thinks is necessary. I was just looking for any clarification from the CAL/Rocketry Community and you all have come thru for me.

I don't know which way the club will end up going, but Dan and I can comply with this shunting process. I was just wanting to see if you all were reading the regs in the same way that I was: not applicable till Larger than M motors.

And I was wondering who it is that decides if a launch system can be CAL Certified or not. That seems to be the real issue if you ask me. Any more thoughts?

Brad

How about calling or emailing them?

(916) 445-8289

FWX@fire.ca.gov

Tony
 
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