Building the best all around, all fiberglass, dual deploy, mid to high powered rocket

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
So as the title says, I want to design and build a very durable and very versatile mid to high powered rocket. Whatever design I come up with will be all fiberglass for durability and be capable of switching from dual to single deploy by removal of AV bay and payload section.

I'm thinking large G motors with single deploy to baby Ls with dual.
54mm motor mount with an adapter to 38.

I believe I will base my design around a 2.6" airframe and go from there. I will post a rocksim file within the next day or so.

I am interested to hear what y'all have to say and (hopefully) see any similar rockets out there.

I am open to suggestions/complete redesigns!
 

dhbarr

Amateur Professional
Joined
Jan 30, 2016
Messages
7,554
Reaction score
1,999
Do you want to accelerate hard, go fast, or go high? Why not CF, cost?
 

dixontj93060

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
13,083
Reaction score
28
Simplest is to go out and get a 3" kit. Three potentials: Madcow/RW G3 (choose your color) or a Wildman Dual-Deploy or Competitor 3 (also from Wildman).
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Do you want to accelerate hard, go fast, or go high? Why not CF, cost?
I just kind of want a flier to do anything, jack of all trades, master of none.

I am a graduating high school senior planning to go to college in a few months, so budget is a bit of an issue, plus I don't think that carbon is quite necessary for this rocket.

Simplest is to go out and get a 3" kit. Three potentials: Madcow/RW G3 (choose your color) or a Wildman Dual-Deploy or Competitor 3 (also from Wildman).
I feel that a 3" kit would be a bit heavy to fly without a waiver on my local field, even in the short configuration. I think that 2.6 is a good medium, but I do plan to verify that with rocksim. Plus I like the idea of doing my own design, I however would be up for modifying a kit...... Maybe.....:)
 

MCriscione

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
296
Reaction score
0
Depends on your cost point, but I'm building a Madcow DX3 right now that might fit your needs. Optionally it has a 54mm motor mount, but will fly nicely on a 38mm (either with an adapter or just getting it in the smaller mount version).

Also, note, you don't have to remove the AV-bay and payload section for single deploy flights unless it's a weight concern for you. The rocket will fly fine with them in place, just put your Main chute in the booster. If you need to stay below a certain altitude waiver limit, you could leave them in place and probably get some nice low and slow flights that way. Lots of flexibility.
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
I've been eyeing the 2.6 dx3 and tomach hard..... I would modify them, but they would be a great start.

How heavy is the dx3 in the full config? I'm sure the single deploy is well under the 3.3lbs for waiverless flying....
 

WILDMANRS

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
2,416
Reaction score
864
Location
Van Orin illinois
So as the title says, I want to design and build a very durable and very versatile mid to high powered rocket. Whatever design I come up with will be all fiberglass for durability and be capable of switching from dual to single deploy by removal of AV bay and payload section.

I'm thinking large G motors with single deploy to baby Ls with dual.
54mm motor mount with an adapter to 38.

I believe I will base my design around a 2.6" airframe and go from there. I will post a rocksim file within the next day or so.

I am interested to hear what y'all have to say and (hopefully) see any similar rockets out there.

I am open to suggestions/complete redesigns!
What you asking for has already been designed .
punisher-3.jpg
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
I'm going to have to agree.....:)

I am however looking to design my own or at least modify a good kit as nothing quite matches what I want.

Quick question: Is there a reason to choose four fins over three or vice versa?
 

Bat-mite

Rocketeer in MD
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
2,414
Location
Maryland
Number of fins affects position of CP before and during flight. Easiest way to see this illustrated is to design a simple rocket in OR, put three fins on it, run some CP sims, then add a fourth fin and rerun sims.
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
2.6" with a 54 and a real payload bay is perfect, just toss the payload for F and G flights.

Madcow has about 5 designs like this, I have the screech and love it
 
Last edited:

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
I am actually looking at buying the parts for those kits off of madcow's website (the pre-slotted tubes and such) subbing in a phenolic motor tube, and maybe doing some tip to tip on custom fins.
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
I am actually looking at buying the parts for those kits off of madcow's website (the pre-slotted tubes and such) subbing in a phenolic motor tube, and maybe doing some tip to tip on custom fins.
I get the custom fins and tip to tip cool ideas.... but why a phenolic MMT?
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
To save weight. Since it is on the inside of the rocket I feel that it doesn't need to be fiberglass, especially with tip to tip. I will also butt the far aft centering ring up against the fins and the retainer to that, so it will support very little of the motors force.
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
I can understand the desire to save weight. However, I don't think it will be a significant savings. It will also create a few issues with CR fitting as the size won't match FG tubing. IT may not need to be FG, but it'll make life tons easier I think.

I don't think it'll hurt you if you go that way.... It's just an odd substitution to me.
 

REK

Sponsor
TRF Sponsor
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
2,950
Reaction score
79
To save weight. Since it is on the inside of the rocket I feel that it doesn't need to be fiberglass, especially with tip to tip. I will also butt the far aft centering ring up against the fins and the retainer to that, so it will support very little of the motors force.
What kind of speeds are you aiming for? Its not like this is minimum diameter. I am also going to say that this is not much of a scratch build either, considering you are buying a kit and just modifying it.

I agree with David, just purchase a madcow kit, build it without tip to tip, no need to swap for flimsy paper tubes, and you can fly in both single deploy or dual deploy. If you want to change the design of the fins, just buy a sheet of glass and cut them out.
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
I agree with David, just purchase a madcow kit, build it without tip to tip, no need to swap for flimsy paper tubes, and you can fly in both single deploy or dual deploy. If you want to change the design of the fins, just buy a sheet of glass and cut them out.

I intend to -abuse- this thing. In in the 38mm version I've done M1.2 and 9K. lets see where the ceiling is....
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
I intend to -abuse- this thing. In in the 38mm version I've done M1.2 and 9K. lets see where the ceiling is....
It doesn't look like that case leaves much room for any drogue. How do you configure it? Drogueless?

I'm not the biggest fan of this method of deployment:
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1464914716.687780.jpg

Mostly because of the need to drop a charge behind the chute. I feel that that adds a point of failure that is unnecessary. Plus the extra capsules needed.

I would modify to this:
ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1464914800.956241.jpg

Any thoughts on that? I honestly have only experience with the second method.

After a quick thought I think that using a phenolic tube is a bad idea if only for the fact of centering rings not fitting right:)

Thanks for all of the input!
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
I fly it drogueless. No issues so far. If you were adding another tube and coupler, it would give room for a drouge if you prefer that.

For me, that setup with a 38/1200 falls from 9K at 78 FPS and I deploy a 4' rocketman chute at 800'. I have video of the descents. Not overly violent, and clean deployments
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Nice! That sounds good, I think that's about where the plan was going to...

Now I just have to optimize it:)
 

Banzai88

Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
1,081
Now I just have to optimize it:)
Just don't fall into the track of trying to re-inventing the wheel. Sounds like that's where you're going. Probably MUCH more cost effective getting one of the MC kits and spending $25-$30 on custom fins and quality recovery components and computers.
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Yep, It took me about three searches and a sim file to figure out that this idea had been done. By many people, and very well too. It just comes down to how I want to make it mine....

I believe my next steps are to sit down and find the cheapest/best way to get all of the parts I need. Whether it is buying one of those madcow kits or maybe just getting some of the individual components they sell, or both:)

Then I get to decide on electronics and tracking.........
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
If I was doing it again, I'd get a Blue Iguana.... But I'd ask for a 36-40" booster and 1/8" fins. If I was feeling crazy that day I'd try to get it in Flo Green too lol.
 

Fearoflightning

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Quick question: is madcow 2.6" tubing the same as wildmans 2.6"?

I want to use a madcow kit, but I don't need to buy 16" of extra tube, especially when wildman sells them in 12" increments.

Also, does wildman do custom airframe slotting? If not, who does?

With the tools that I have, that particular step is almost prohibitively difficult, which is why I'm looking at buying and modifying a kit.

Thanks!
 

dixontj93060

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
13,083
Reaction score
28
Quick question: is madcow 2.6" tubing the same as wildmans 2.6"?

I want to use a madcow kit, but I don't need to buy 16" of extra tube, especially when wildman sells them in 12" increments.

Also, does wildman do custom airframe slotting? If not, who does?

With the tools that I have, that particular step is almost prohibitively difficult, which is why I'm looking at buying and modifying a kit.

Thanks!
In general, the answer is yes. They both use the thin-wall fiberglass for the 2.6" body. Given that you are clearly not going to buy a kit at probably a cheaper price and want instead to eek things back to minimum cost, it would probably be best to just call Tim (@ Wildman's, 815-638-3200) and consult with him. He is set up to do both standard kitting and any custom work you would need including slotting. He will give you a combo price that will be very competitive.
 

DavidMcCann

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
172
I will say, I'm no fan of the nosecone, but Tim should have recommended this kit to you- https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=7098


Also, it's worth tossing an email to madcow and asking if he'd slot something for you.


Thirdly- Mike Crupe at MAC Performance will cut just about anything you want. He's got 3 and 4" Canvas phenolic tubes right now, and is getting in 54mm now/soon. The stuff is LIGHT.


Many options, and my hunt for the perfect kit has lead to a walk-in closet FULL of rockets :)
 

Banzai88

Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
1,081
Tim @ wildman and Mike @ Mad Cow have both done custom cuts and slotting with email/phone call orders. Email first to discuss before placing the order to ensure that you're both on the same page.

I have not found that Wildman and Mad Cow/Rocketry Warehouse glass interchanges well. Pick one and stick with it, UNLESS you have some pretty solid experience with building fiberglass kits and know what you're getting into.
 
Top