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Build Thread: MAC Performance Rocketry 4" Extended Villain

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patelldp

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Imagine fiberglass at half the weight and you'll be in the ballpark.
While it's certainly lightweight, I don't believe it's THAT lightweight. Its strength and weight are comparable to the new thin-wall fiberglass tubes offered nowadays, but the tubing will fit standard thickness components. It cuts a lot nicer than glass without any fraying, delaminating, or stress relieving when cutting fin slots.

I'm also really considering making some motor liners out of this stuff. I've already checked with Mike to see if he has any short end cuts to give a 3.5" (89mm) 1 or 2 grain motor a try. I don't see why it wouldn't work, and you can use Red Arrow Hobbies, PML, or LOC couplers as casting tubes.
 

patelldp

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How's it compare to bluetube?
I honestly despise Blue Tube. I'm not sure on the weight comparison as I have purged myself of all of it. I know that you don't need to seal the Canvas, you don't need to worry about moisture or warping, and Mike custom fits all of the components. The last bit of Blue Tube I had (54mm x 48") was warped and the ID was severely oversized. Blue Tube requires regulated temperature and humidity to fit right, Canvas does not.

Canvas Composite > Blue Tube, in my opinion. The version of Blue Tube is irrelevant.
 

Onebadhawk

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While it's certainly lightweight, I don't believe it's THAT lightweight. Its strength and weight are comparable to the new thin-wall fiberglass tubes offered nowadays, but the tubing will fit standard thickness components. It cuts a lot nicer than glass without any fraying, delaminating, or stress relieving when cutting fin slots.

I'm also really considering making some motor liners out of this stuff. I've already checked with Mike to see if he has any short end cuts to give a 3.5" (89mm) 1 or 2 grain motor a try. I don't see why it wouldn't work, and you can use Red Arrow Hobbies, PML, or LOC couplers as casting tubes.
Dan,,
You know I have research aspirations...
I want to understand this stuff..
I think I will much more so when I get into doing it,, I haven't yet,, been too busy...
I totally understand you think this material would make a good liner tube...
I do not understand how the size would be correct...
If these tubes are airframe and coupler tube sizes,,
how would they fit as a motor liner ??

Teddy
 

patelldp

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Dan,,
You know I have research aspirations...
I want to understand this stuff..
I think I will much more so when I get into doing it,, I haven't yet,, been too busy...
I totally understand you think this material would make a good liner tube...
I do not understand how the size would be correct...
If these tubes are airframe and coupler tube sizes,,
how would they fit as a motor liner ??

Teddy
Everything changes when you have a lathe.

The OD of the 3" tube is ~3.125". You can buy 3.5" OD aluminum tube with a 3/16" wall that has an ID of 3.125". Therefore, airframe material can be used as liner, and coupler tubing can be used as casting tubes.

This will be a custom job.
 

kelltym88

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They certainly have some nice looking kits, and reasonably priced. When you think about all of the time and labor it would take to make your own fins and cut tubing and glassing, etc...... I think I will have to give these guys a try, when I can.
 

Onebadhawk

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Everything changes when you have a lathe.

The OD of the 3" tube is ~3.125". You can buy 3.5" OD aluminum tube with a 3/16" wall that has an ID of 3.125". Therefore, airframe material can be used as liner, and coupler tubing can be used as casting tubes.

This will be a custom job.
I understand...
And that motor case would be extremely well protected from the
heat of the burn that way I guess..
Very cool...

Teddy
 

patelldp

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I understand...
And that motor case would be extremely well protected from the
heat of the burn that way I guess..
Very cool...

Teddy
Canvas liner is way overkill for a short case such as a 1G or 2G. For a much longer case, it's probably better suited!
 

Onebadhawk

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Canvas liner is way overkill for a short case such as a 1G or 2G. For a much longer case, it's probably better suited!
A material able to withstand the stresses of flight
for the liner tube AND another one for the casting tube
I would think would be overkill for the longest motor..
I think that's a great idea,,
Zero concerns about heat soak or burn through..
I bet with that for a casting tube
you'd get more then one burn out of a liner tube...

Teddy
 

DizWolf

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I have piles of bluetube and rockets made of it. Weight is comparable. I prefer canvas. Bluetube has issues with staying the same size over time, heat, moisture...etc.
 
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patelldp

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The rocket flew today!

54/1400 K530 Orange to 4,700'. Landing was a little wet, but the Canvas tubing doesn't seem to care!

[YOUTUBE]ocOyZiCWVQE[/YOUTUBE]
 

3stoogesrocketry

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Beautiful flight Dan. I sure wish I could of made it down today. Looks like you landed an out 100 yards east of where my rocket hangs. Did you see it by any chance?
 

RKeller

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nice flight but looked like a hard hit on the rocks. any damage?
 

Zebedee

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Really thought it was going to miss the water right up to the final seconds - no issues from getting wet?
 

patelldp

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Beautiful flight Dan. I sure wish I could of made it down today. Looks like you landed an out 100 yards east of where my rocket hangs. Did you see it by any chance?
Eric,

I did not see your rocket. Gary knew where it is and tried to show me, but the trees are too thick now.
 

patelldp

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nice flight but looked like a hard hit on the rocks. any damage?
Rocket is good to go. I was even able to slip the payload coupler into the booster for the walk back and had zero difficulty getting it back apart at the car. This stuff is tough!

Surprisingly, it appears the graphite nozzle is, too!
 

patelldp

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Really thought it was going to miss the water right up to the final seconds - no issues from getting wet?
Zero. The water landing proved to be somewhat lucky as we had a strong RF signal the whole way! Had it landed in the 6' tall grass we had to walk through to get to the rocket, I'm not sure how well that would have gone.
 

patelldp

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Here are the landing pics. The booster got wet, everything else stayed dry!

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1439122951.242402.jpg

ImageUploadedByRocketry Forum1439122978.650706.jpg
 

DizWolf

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You and Riley with these water dodging electronics. :p~~

Cool flight, love the steam off the motor.
 

kjkcolorado

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Great build thread, beautiful rocket and nice water landing! We don't have to worry about water landings where we launch in Northern Colorado..... miles and miles of open grasslands.

Quick question for you and others who have worked with the MAC tubing. I just completed my Level 2 with a 4" Blue Tube scratch built rocket. I am very careful not to lay the Blue Tube (or rockets made of them) horizontally without support through the entire length due to the possibility of warp/bending. Other than that I liked working with it and haven't had any other fit or finish issues (maybe since we have about zero humidity here in Colorado). My next project is going to be a 3" tube fin design that I hope to push pretty hard (relatively speaking). I was thinking Blue Tube again, but this thread (and others recently touting the MAC products) has me thinking of trying the canvas phenolic tubing. Any reason it wouldn't be a good choice for tube fins?
 

patelldp

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Great build thread, beautiful rocket and nice water landing! We don't have to worry about water landings where we launch in Northern Colorado..... miles and miles of open grasslands.

Quick question for you and others who have worked with the MAC tubing. I just completed my Level 2 with a 4" Blue Tube scratch built rocket. I am very careful not to lay the Blue Tube (or rockets made of them) horizontally without support through the entire length due to the possibility of warp/bending. Other than that I liked working with it and haven't had any other fit or finish issues (maybe since we have about zero humidity here in Colorado). My next project is going to be a 3" tube fin design that I hope to push pretty hard (relatively speaking). I was thinking Blue Tube again, but this thread (and others recently touting the MAC products) has me thinking of trying the canvas phenolic tubing. Any reason it wouldn't be a good choice for tube fins?
I think it would make a great tube fin rocket! I bet Mike would even kit one up for you if you ask, but I can't comment for him.
 

DizWolf

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I've had my 3" villain laying sideways for about a month now as I do fillets (i'm slow). No warping issues.
 

caffeinated

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Now that the major internal assembly is done, what do you guys think so far? The participation is pretty low aside from my documentation, should I continue?

I have a few questions for those of you lurking out there:

1. Are you learning anything by my doing this?
2. Are there any questions that you have about this or other MAC Performance kits that I can help with?
3. Is this thread piquing your interest about the new line of kits?

I'm open to criticism, comments, suggestions, etc.!
I just bought a 4" scorpion, liking and learning from the excellent way you document and photo the process. Thanks! Keep more coming in the future (I know you did this years ago. Found it via search.
 

BSNW

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Curios - why use the 1515 rail buttons? I've used 1010 on heavier 4" FG kits.
I do the same thing on many of my 4" rockets. I have also noticed that 1515 rails are often a bit longer at the clubs I travel to. I like the longer travel on the rail, which gives me better flights. I also do not trust the smaller rail buttons on rockets with that much thrust. But that is just me. The 1515 buttons and rails are simply more robust.

Andrew
 
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