Build report: Cloning the Estes Cineroc w/Astron Omega Launch Body.

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K'Tesh

.....OpenRocket's ..... "Chuck Norris"
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[EDIT] I changed the title from "Build report: Backdating Semroc Omega to Estes Cineroc w/Astron Omega Launch Body." to "Build report: Cloning the Estes Cineroc w/Astron Omega Launch Body." due to a change in plans... read on.. [/EDIT]

Well, after nearly 30 years, I've begun the process of building the rocket of my dreams. Ever since I first saw the Estes Cineroc/Astron Omega in my teacher's 1971 Estes Catalog, I've wanted one for myself.




There's something about the lines of that rocket (complete with the fairing jutting out of the side of the payload section) that has held my imagination for decades. Despite not having a ogive nose cone, it just looks FAST!!!

When I was doing some research for the 808 #16 camera, I somehow got caught a tangent thread of investigation, and found Boosterdude's SEMROC - Omega thread. If you haven't seen his rocket yet, I strongly recommend you take a look, he's done a sweet job of making this rocket.

However, my dreams are for the originals. So, my plans are to take the Semroc Omega RetroRepro (Kit# KV-64) and externally backdate it to the Estes design of the 1970's. In my research, I wasn't able to find any copies of the original instructions for the Cat. No 701-RC-8 Combination Offer (nor any photos of an unboxing), but I was able to turn up scans of the Omega's instructions, as well as the Cineroc Operating Manual both here and at YORF. I've also managed to locate scans of the Estes Catalogs through the years that the Cineroc was in production. The 1974 Cineroc/Omega combo has the best combination of features I've been looking for...



That is the rocket I'll be basing this build's external looks on.

The internals will be a lot different from the original however. First, you have Semroc's slotted fins, and the variations of the centering rings. I'll be building my Omega with a ducted ejection system to eliminate the need for wadding, and I'll be going with the elastic shock cord rather than the kevlar shock cord, due to zippering fears. I've only zippered one rocket (a personal attempt at recreating the Estes Trident), and I'm not looking for a repeat of that mistake. I don't know yet If I'll be going with the option of using the original D Booster, D Upper engine combo, or an E to D, or E to E option. I'll wait for the kit to arrive (E to E has my interest, but I'll probably only launch D to D or E to D to to loss concerns).

The Cineroc camera payload section will be replaced with the 808 #16 keychain camera. I also am planning on adding a sonic beacon (a cheap alarm for windows and doors), to improve my odds of recovery should the rocket get out of sight, and perhaps an LED light to help me find it if I have to go pluck it out of a tree at night. I will try my best to match the external look, but the guts will be a new beast entirely.

So, until I get the kit and parts in my hands, You, and I will have to wait for updates. I hope to have this built in time for a launch during Dead Week/Finals.

I've printed out the dimensional drawings of the camera, the Cineroc Operations Manual, and the 701-K-52P instructions. No, really what I'm really looking for is information on the decals. I'm going to make the Semroc Omega almost stock (externally at least), but I've got decals (Excelsior Rocketry) to make it match a 1970's Estes Cineroc/Omega. What I don't know is was there a special set of instructions/decals sent with the Cat. No. 701-RC-8 (Combination Offer).

I've checked through the Estes catalogs from 1970 to 1975 when they discontinued the Cineroc. I've seen the camera always has the white logo/Cineroc decal (but according to one resource only one, not two). A quote from Earl stated that the Cineroc he bought had the decal in the Operations Manual when he unboxed it. I've also seen the rocket body with and without the black and blue logo/Cineroc/Omega decal. I'd also like to know more about the yellow tape of the originals. How long and wide was it? Was it electrical tape? or something else? I understand that Semroc has included something to simulate the yellow of the originals (I'll get that answered for me firmly when mine arrives (soon))

I've never managed to get a firm answer to this question... Did the RC-8 rocket body have only one of the black/blue decals, or did it come with two? Did it come with any bodytube decals at all? I've seen in some photos of an unboxed Omega that apparently some of the 701-K-52 (no payload section)/701-K-52P's (w/payload section) didn't come with any body tube decals.

I'm also hunting for info on the 701-K-52's instructions. Were they different than the K-52P's and/or the RC-8's?

If I don't get a firm, "This is how it was back then..." from someone who knows, I'll probably build the rocket with only one of the body tube decals (opposite of the LL) and one white on the camera body.

For those who are looking to do this yourself, I'll be updating this with links to related threads and resources as I can.

Estes - (Astron) Omega (K-52 or #1252) Gallery
Classic Estes Cineroc/Astron Omega decal questions.

Estes Industries Rocket Kit #K-52P (.tif) JimZ's archived instructions for the Omega Payloader (cat. no. 701-K-52P)
Estes Cineroc camera dimensional drawing (.pdf)
Estes Cineroc Operating Manual (.pdf)
Rcgrabbag's Excellent Resource in building his Omega clone with a real Cineroc
Great photos of a Cineroc being unboxed and more
Official Cineroc Clone #2 thread at YORF (Another really nice clone)
Pick1e's mounting a keychain cam in a body tube.
Then there's this Upscale version


Dimensions of the original Estes fins from YORF post.
Estes Omega Booster
3.25" Root Chord Length
2.25" Tip Chord Length
2.50" Semi Span

Estes Omega Sustainer
2.80" Root Chord Length
1.90" Tip Chord Length
2.0625" Semi Span​


Estes Part numbers for the Cineroc. Source/Date Unknown

Excelsior Rocketry's Estes Classic Decals - Omega (with Cineroc decals)

Semroc Omega Rocket Kit# KV-64's official site
Semroc Omega Rocket Instructions (.pdf)


eletoponline365's store (Manufacturer of the Mini DVR 808 #16)
Darice 1/2" Square Glass Mirrors (for use as the camera's periscope)
[video=youtube;Ot4VUKEevJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ot4VUKEevJg[/video]

Seagulls Beware...
K'Tesh
 
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Oh man, when I was a kid I wanted the Cineroc BAD! Never could afford it though, but I did build an Omega in the early 70's. I don't remember much about the construction, unfortunately. But I do remember vividly its one and only flight. D to D, it staged perfectly, and the sustainer just kept going. I saw the chute deploy, but it never came down. I don't know if it was thermals (it was a warm summer evening), but it drifted horizontally out of sight. I kept the booster for years afterwards, but it has since been lost. I loved that rocket, it was my first 24mm two stage. I did buy the Semroc version, but haven't started on it. I would also like to someday build a 3" upscale. I'll definitely be following this thread with interest!
 
Oh man, when I was a kid I wanted the Cineroc BAD! Never could afford it though, but I did build an Omega in the early 70's. I don't remember much about the construction, unfortunately. But I do remember vividly its one and only flight. D to D, it staged perfectly, and the sustainer just kept going. I saw the chute deploy, but it never came down. I don't know if it was thermals (it was a warm summer evening), but it drifted horizontally out of sight. I kept the booster for years afterwards, but it has since been lost. I loved that rocket, it was my first 24mm two stage. I did buy the Semroc version, but haven't started on it. I would also like to someday build a 3" upscale. I'll definitely be following this thread with interest!

Hi qquake2k

Sorry to hear about your loss of the Omega. Hopefully it was found by someone who gave it a loving home (I know if I had found it, and no ID, I'd certainly have given it one). Did you vent your 'chute, or was it built stock?

I've since learned from someone who made the Cineroc that their camera's payload section only had one white Estes Logo/Cineroc decal. On your Omega, do you remember if it had one or two blue/black Estes Logo/Cineroc/Omega decals (if any?).
 
Hi qquake2k

Sorry to hear about your loss of the Omega. Hopefully it was found by someone who gave it a loving home (I know if I had found it, and no ID, I'd certainly have given it one). Did you vent your 'chute, or was it built stock?

I've since learned from someone who made the Cineroc that their camera's payload section only had one white Estes Logo/Cineroc decal. On your Omega, do you remember if it had one or two blue/black Estes Logo/Cineroc/Omega decals (if any?).

I doubt if the chute had a spill hole. I didn't know about those back then. The only decals I remember were the fin decals, but then, it has been 40 years.
 
I would imagine a good bit lighter weight for one...:)
rex
 
Something funny I noticed today...



In the photo above the Cineroc camera is glossy black, and apparently so is the screw eye. I suspect Estes painted their Cineroc camera for that photo. I may be wrong, but in the photos I've seen of YORF's Earl's unboxing of the Cineroc, it's not quite got that high gloss look, I'm certain it was bare plastic. Also supporting this was the look of the camera in the 1970 catalog.



That looks like bare plastic to me.

So, the final decision on the model I will be making is... I will be making a copy of the 1974 Estes Catalog photo model. I wonder if anybody who bought one back in the day felt a slight disappointment that it wasn't so glossy as the photograph appeared. I know I would have been just a little.

Oh, and another thing... I spotted the launch lugs in the 1970 catalog too. You don't see those to often in newer catalogs. [EDIT] Having built two clones now, I noticed that the LLs in that photo are not in the "right" place. The bottom of the lower one should be 1 3/4" from the bottom of the sustainer. [/EDIT]

All The Best!
K'Tesh
 
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Got some more info on the original Cineroc today.

Apparently the 1974 catalog's example was not "stock". It looks like Estes painted the camera gloss black for the photo. The tell was the screw eye appears to be black.



Earl told me that the cineroc he unboxed in his YORF Cineroc thread was certainly bare plastic, but the nosecone and the adapter were of a different material than the main body of the camera. That, plus the screw eye was natural metal, not painted. I wonder if anybody was just even a little disappointed when they saw it wasn't so glossy when they opened their kit for the first time. I know I was when I was hard at work on my Astrocam 110 project (yes, I painted mine after masking the important bits). My Astrocam never got off the ground, as I had a special landmark in mind when I was building it, and the head park ranger said quite clearly, "No, you will not be able to launch a rocket here". I tried taking the rocket to some high ground to get the image, but that didn't work either (film jammed, and wouldn't advance). I still would like to try that someday, presuming I'm not on my way to Asia too soon, and I can get there (several hundred miles away, and I'm a teacher in training (read: Very little extra cash)).

There seems to be only one white Cineroc decal that came with the CM-8, but that still leaves the question open about the number of Black/Blue Logo/Cineroc/Omega decals included in the RC-8 package. It was tucked inside the Operating Manual when he opened his up.


Authentic Cineroc Tape Strips. Photo Courtesy of Earl Cagle

With Earl's photo of the tape strips, it appears that the yellow tape is about 3/8" wide, and included two pieces for covering the on/off switch port, as well as two strips 4 15/16" long. The type of tape hasn't been locked down for me yet, but I'm guessing Electrical tape.

With all this new information, I've decided that I will be making a copy of the '74 Catalog's photo model, and not a stock model.
 
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Something funny I noticed today...



In the photo above the Cineroc camera is glossy black, and apparently so is the screw eye. I suspect Estes painted their Cineroc camera for that photo. I may be wrong, but in the photos I've seen of YORF's Earl's unboxing of the Cineroc, it's not quite got that high gloss look, I'm certain it was bare plastic. Also supporting this was the look of the camera in the 1970 catalog.



That looks like bare plastic to me.

So, the final decision on the model I will be making is... I will be making a copy of the 1974 Estes Catalog photo model. I wonder if anybody who bought one back in the day felt a slight disappointment that it wasn't so glossy as the photograph appeared. I know I would have been just a little.

Oh, and another thing... I spotted the launch lugs in the 1970 catalog too. You don't see those to often in newer catalogs.

All The Best!
K'Tesh

If it wasn't painted for the "glamour shot" PR photo, they might well have "polished it up" with something akin to "Armor-All" or something to make it "gleam" for the photo shoot...

If you ever built an Astrocam 110, (which I had in the 80's and still have around here somewhere) it was very smooth and fairly "glossy" right out of the package... not "gleaming" by any stretch, but smooth and fairly shiny... actually from a filming point of view, you don't WANT it to be glossy and highly reflective-- it can cause lens flares from the reflection of intense light like sunlight when it turns a certain way WRT the sunlight or swinging under the parachute on recovery...

Actually from a "filming" POV, you actually would want to the camera to have a satin finish or flat finish-- to minimize the probability of lens flares off the shiny surface, which is much less off a satin or flat surface... that's why "photo glass" is usually a satin finish-- to minimize glare reflected off the glass (Hobby Lobby's framing department even sells specialty "museum quality" photo-glass, which is especially good at preventing reflected light from messing up the viewing of artifacts placed behind it from various angles...

Given that the Astrocam grew out of the same process (and had the same inventor) as the Cineroc, and used similar construction, I'd bet they had a very similar finish "out of the box"...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Got some more info on the original Cineroc today.

Apparently the 1974 catalog's example was not "stock". It looks like Estes painted the camera gloss black for the photo. The tell was the screw eye appears to be black.



Earl told me that the cineroc he unboxed in his YORF Cineroc thread was certainly bare plastic, but the nosecone and the adapter were of a different material than the main body of the camera. That, plus the screw eye was natural metal, not painted. I wonder if anybody was just even a little disappointed when they saw it wasn't so glossy when they opened their kit for the first time. I know I was when I was hard at work on my Astrocam 110 project (yes, I painted mine after masking the important bits). My Astrocam never got off the ground, as I had a special landmark in mind when I was building it, and the head park ranger said quite clearly, "No, you will not be able to launch a rocket here". I tried taking the rocket to some high ground to get the image, but that didn't work either (film jammed, and wouldn't advance). I still would like to try that someday, presuming I'm not on my way to Asia too soon, and I can get there (several hundred miles away, and I'm a teacher in training (read: Very little extra cash)).

There seems to be only one white Cineroc decal that came with the CM-8, but that still leaves the question open about the number of Black/Blue Logo/Cineroc/Omega decals included in the RC-8 package. It was tucked inside the Operating Manual when he opened his up.


Authentic Cineroc Tape Strips. Photo Courtesy of Earl Cagle

With Earl's photo of the tape strips, it appears that the yellow tape is about 3/8" wide, and included two pieces for covering the on/off switch port, as well as two strips 4 15/16" long. The type of tape hasn't been locked down for me yet, but I'm guessing Electrical tape.

With all this new information, I've decided that I will be making a copy of the '74 Catalog's photo model, and not a stock model.

On the Astrocam... you DO know that they had a "film block" that you had to depress (small square button on the back side near the film door-- almost overlapping the film door) to release the film to advance it, right?? You had to depress the little square button a tad to retract the "film locking tooth" in the film path while turning the film advance wheel-- this would all the film to move in its track... as soon as it started to move, you IMMEDIATELY released the square button, so the locking tooth could drop back down onto the edge of the film... the film would slide along just fine underneath the tooth until the next frame of film had been fully advanced and the hole in the edge of the film lined up with the tooth, which would then drop into place, "locking" the film properly centered behind the shutter for the next exposure... regular 110 cameras had this same arrangement to center the film under the shutter...

Sometimes (and this happened to me a few times) the button would "stick" just enough that the tooth "missed" the next hole in the film, and it'd wind PAST it... at which point you simply had to pry up on the button a bit so that the tooth dropped back down against the film, and advance to the next frame... you couldn't rewind 110 film to try again... that exposure would merely be "blank" in the finished roll...

As for the strips... Another thought has occurred to me besides the yellow electrical tape-- you could get some TRIM MONOKOTE in the proper "bright yellow" or whatever shade it should be, and cut the strips you need from that. Trim Monokote is self-adhesive, and you might even be able to get it the proper width already cut, as "trim tape" at a good hobby shop or online hobby retailer...

Good luck with your project! OL JR :)
 
I've found that maintaining the same thread in two forums is a bit time consuming, I'll check up on this forum, but most of my efforts with this topic will now be focused on the YORF thread.
 
Well, this project has languished for quite a while... I've made no progress in obtaining my own Cineroc CM-8 camera (I'm looking for two). However I did spend a few minutes building up this Open Rocket simulation of the camera and the Cineroc/Omega combination.





Now if I could only figure out how to share my .rkt file.

One trick I came up with to create the shape of the nose cone was to use the dimensional drawings someone posted. I realized that I couldn't create the shape with one nosecone shape, so the nosecone on this rocket is a whopping 1/4" long. Behind it was a transition that connected it to the outer casing. The camera fairing is a "fin" that I used the drawing's shape to create. Unfortunately, OR doesn't have the ability to show aerodynamic shaping to fins.

To get the Launch Lugs right, I had to create a body tube that was the right diameter (BT-60 + .25" (or 1.89")) , that was nothing thick (.0001"), and nothing long (.0001") and attach them the correct distance behind it. The standoffs are just fins in the right place.

The color scheme of the camera is based on the actual (observed) appearance of the rocket, and not my idealized (gloss black) version.
 
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Interesting project. You also going to make a hand cranked viewer that takes a micro SD card? ;)
 
Naw, Rich... Hiding the batteries would be too hard.

I could however update the files to more accurately portray the looks of the rocket though...





Now if I could only figure out how to put "decals" on .ork files.
 
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Anybody know if Herb Desind's films are available anymore? I've heard about them and tried searching, but all the links seem to go nowhere.
 
Anybody know if Herb Desind's films are available anymore? I've heard about them and tried searching, but all the links seem to go nowhere.

That's a question better asked on YORF...

I recall someone discussing that in the fairly recent past, but can't remember all the details. I think someone was talking about trying to get in contact with his family to see if they'd be willing to allow him to do transfers to digital to preserve his films or something along those lines...

Heck I'm trying to figure out how to put stuff I had on VHS and have already transferred to DVD years ago, how to get that into the computer so I could youtube it or whatever... apparently DVD "language" and computer "language" for vids isn't interchangeable...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Lost my Omega to a break-in around 1975-76, but still had the Cineroc camera in the apartment so it survived. A few years back at a Naram I won a IN-The-Box Cineroc Camera with film cartridge. Still haven't opened that one but getting it (almost two years later) sparked an interest in scratch building an Omega 2-stage booster and cleaning up my original Cineroc. Believe it for not after all those years the motor and camera guts worked just fine on 2 N-cell batteries. After a good bit of searching on line found and obtained an empty film cartridge and a source for super-8 film:)
So the Omega Booster had to be built. Completed in October 1995 it flew my First fleet Cineroc camera in May of 1996. Still haven't had to film developed as other projects and stuff have come up.
At some point I may replace the inner workings with a key-cam or one of the many Mini Digital camera available today but some of the old films are fun and dizzing to watch:)

Hope you enjoy your Omega Cineroc clone as much as I have! it's a Wonderful addition to any Mod-Roc Fleet.

Omega 2 stage-a-sm_complete 03-16-72.jpg
 
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Ok... I've got a break between terms, and I pulled out the plans for the K-52 (and the parts of a K-52P) that a member (who wishes to remain anonymous) here sent to me.


I'd decided to work on the .ork file, and WHOA!!! I found that there were a number of differences between the Semroc and the original Estes versions. So, I've gone over the .ork file and corrected it.


Estes Cineroc 701-RC-8 (accurate)



Semroc Omega



Estes Omega K-52 (accurate)



Estes Omega K-52P (accurate)



The numbers for things such as the fins, standoffs, and positions are based on actual measurements (or computations based upon actual measurments). Mind you, to create accurate positioning of the launch lugs on the stand-offs, I had to add a "phantom" body tube. It's .000001" thick, and .000001" long, and 1.89" OD. I don't have weights for the screw eyes, nor the Engine Holders, and they have been omitted. The files associated with these kits do have the BT-52S Tube Collars included. I've also included the .ork for the modified Estes Omega K-52 that has no externally visible changes (once built) but has TTW fins, and is E motor compatible.


The Semroc Omega was downloaded as a .rkt file from Semroc, converted to a .ork file, and colorized. No changes were made to any of the dimensions of the file. I have noticed that the file is missing the TTW fin tabs that were present in the actual rocket (the Estes kits didn't have TTW fins).

Estes' Omega K-52/K-52P FinsSemroc's Omega Fins*
Sustainer
0.125" thick balsa
Root Chord = 3.125"
Tip Chord = 2.0625"
Height = 2.3125"
Leading = 2.375"
Trailing Edge = 2.375"

Booster
0.125" thick balsa
Root Chord = 3.625"
Tip Chord = 2.5625"
Height = 2.40625"
Leading = 2.875"
Trailing Edge = 2.875"

Stand-offs (Launch Rod)
0.125" thick balsa
Root/Tip Chord = 0.625"
Height = 0.21875"
Leading/Trailing edge = 0.21875"

Stand-offs (Launch Rail)
0.0975" thick balsa
Root/Tip Chord = 0.625"
Height = 0.21875"
Leading/Trailing edge = 0.21875"
Rail Stand-off Card 0.625" long
Rail Stand-off Card 0.171875" high
Rail Stand-off Card .054" thick
Sustainer
0.125" thick balsa
Root Chord = 3.1"
Tip Chord = 2.02"
Height = 2.31"
Leading = 2.37228"
Trailing Edge = 2.37228"

Booster
0.125" thick balsa
Root Chord = 3.64"
Tip Chord = 2.53"
Height = 2.8"
Leading = 2.85743"
Trailing Edge = 2.85743"

Stand-offs (Launch Rod only)
0.125" thick balsa
Root/Tip Chord = 1.25"
Height = 0.178"
Leading/Trailing edge = 0.178"

Stand-offs**
0.125" thick
Root Cord = 1"
Tip Cord = 0.75"
Height 0.178"
Leading/Trailing edge = 0.21750"

*As found in the .rkt file
downloaded from Semroc
** As identified in the instructions




































Share and Enjoy!
Jim
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View attachment Estes Omega K-52P (accurate).ork

View attachment Estes Omega K-52 (accurate).ork

View attachment Estes Cineroc 701-RC-8 (accurate).ork
 

Attachments

  • Semroc-Omega.ork
    2 KB · Views: 39
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Having found errors with the Semroc .rkt, I decided to try to correct it (as a .ork) file, based on the instructions. Below you will find an image of the "raw" version of the .ork file, and one that is based on the instructions from the actual kit.


Semroc-Omega


Semroc-Omega (per instructions)


The most noticeable difference will be the launch lugs/launch lug stand-off shapes, lengths, and locations. I've also updated the nosecone to be more accurate. Unfortunately, I can't find my unsanded Semroc Omega's fins to verify the measurements of them, but I did come across a set of centering rings, and the fin tabs had to be 1/8" high. One major change to the "per instructions" version is that the fin tabs I added extend all the way to the motor mount's tube, whereas in the actual kit, they didn't.


Pointy Side Up!
Jim
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View attachment Semroc-Omega.ork

View attachment Semroc-Omega (per instructions).ork
 
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Get this thing built...


Ok... It's been quite a while. Here's what's been going on. After getting the Cineroc, and the Omega, I've hesitated building it due to doubts about my skills. I want this thing to be an example of the peak of my abilities, and not reveal my lack of skills. Truth be told, I messed up on the Semroc version. I couldn't get the fins right. I've found out what the problem was, and thanks to Payloadbay's fin alignment guide, I've now got the abilities to do this proud.


I've learned how to paper fins with excellent results (the secret was squeegeeing the fins through a puddle of thin CA glue to seal the fins).


In checking my sources, I learned that the Semroc Omega wasn't a true clone down to the last details. I'm Ok with that, but I stated my goal was to make an Omega that looked (from the outside) like it had been build by a master builder back in the day. My build of the Semroc kit didn't cut it (not their fault, mine totally). It's good, but not great. I'll finish it, but as a (fins slightly askew) imperfect practice run.


Ok... REBOOT.


Beginning on New Year's Eve, I decided to actually do some work on a clone. Mind you, this will be an E/E capable rocket. The only obvious change will be the launch lugs (I'll use ones for a 3/16" launch rod instead of the ones for a 1/8" rod). Other mods will be done internally (e.g. TTW fins, vented booster for gap staging). The BT-52S parts were ommitted, and the sustainer's motor tube was shortened from 7.75" to 4". A 3rd centering ring was added to the sustainer (I'm planning on internal fillets as well as external).


I cut some body tubes down. I used the Estes tool and a fresh Xacto blade, then marked the tube using Estes' Tube Marking Guide, a .005 mechanical pencil, and a piece of angle aluminum.





Next I built the motor mounts... modifying them for the longer motor, and placement of the cenering rings to accomidate the TTW fin tabs. Below is the sustainer's MMT (the rear CR is not glued in, and won't be until fillets are done).





Then cut out the fins using the templates that I created with Open Rocket (BTW, I messed up on the .ork files I uploaded a couple of days ago. The rear fins should be 1/8" thick. I've corrected it and uploaded them here on TRF). I papered the fins, cut them out, then sanded them to shape. and sealed them with thin CA.





I then slotted the tubes, and Using the payload bay fin tool, I glued the fins in place using white glue (I'll use epoxy for the fillets).





And today I glued up the launch lug stand-offs as it would be for using a "C" Rail. The rail stand-off card was simulated with the discarded center of some centering rings. I've yet to actually glue on the lugs.





I still need to decide if I'm going to install a baffle. So, the laundry hasn't been installed. The fillets haven't been done yet, so the rear centering rings are still not installed. However, it's starting to take shape... Finally.





Once I have those things done, I guess I'll need to fix the camera (pressure plate's foam rotted away), and get started on the digital conversion. Unfortunately, the guy who was working on the 3D printed parts has gone silent... So, I'm looking for another person who wants to take up the challenge.


Now, I've got to go and get some things done.


Happy New Year!
Jim


.
 
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Once I have those things done, I guess I'll need to fix the camera (pressure plate's foam rotted away),
.

I have found the best fix for this is as follows:

3M makes 1" wide Velcro with adhesive on the back side. You only need the soft "fuzzy" part, not the hard "hook" part.

Clean off all of the old foam and adhesive from the pressure plate and main Cineroc camera body tab.

Cut 2 pieces of the fuzzy Velcro, one to fit the Cineroc body tab, and the 2nd to fit the back of the pressure plate. The piece for the pressure plate needs to be slimmer, so it doesn't cover the part of the pressure plate that is cut out to make room for the film pull down claw.IMG_20150105_173813.jpgIMG_20150105_173732.jpg

This gives the proper fit and snugness to the pressure plate.

Nice job on your Omega.
 
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I have found the best fix for this is as follows:

3M makes 1" wide Velcro with adhesive on the back side. You only need the soft "fuzzy" part, not the hard "hook" part.

Clean off all of the old foam and adhesive from the pressure plate and main Cineroc camera body tab.

Cut 2 pieces of the fuzzy Velcro, one to fit the Cineroc body tab, and the 2nd to fit the back of the pressure plate. The piece for the pressure plate needs to be slimmer, so it doesn't cover the part of the pressure plate that is cut out to make room for the film pull down claw.View attachment 250810View attachment 250811

This gives the proper fit and snugness to the pressure plate.

Nice job on your Omega.

Oh... That is an EXCELLENT tip!!!

I've got some velcro tabs (the soft side), only about 18" from my right ear, right now (the pressure plate is even closer).

Now that I've got that Omega (mostly) done, I've got to do two (possibly 3) more. I've got a K-52P that needs to be built, a K-52 for the digital (3D printed) version. I'd also like to do a 2nd Semroc Omega (even if it's cloned) as a tribute to Carl McLawhorn and Mike Dorffler.

Thanks for sharing!
Jim
 
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Here's a little update...

The Three Omegas

16347701982_f0eb935ea1_c.jpg
 
Really nice group of launch vehicles. Better than .ork and .rkt files by a mile IMHO ! :)
 
Really nice group of launch vehicles. Better than .ork and .rkt files by a mile IMHO ! :)

Where's the "Like" button for this thread?

Thanks!


I know this is nuts, but I'm thinking about doing a third Estes Omega. This time one that is a true clone (D/D motors), 1/8" launch lugs, BT-52 body tubes to hold the engine hooks in place, No venting of the booster. I think I'd still do TTW fins (easier to get them on straight).

I know you'd rather see the real thing samb, but there is a place for sims... I use them to help the guys who I contacted about printing the Cineroc nosecone, transition, and what I'm calling the keyed bulkhead visualize what I'm trying to do. Now, if only they would get back to me.






I'm hoping to score two nosecones (one to be drilled for the screw eye so it can take downward facing images, and the other that isn't drilled). The real Cineroc's shoulder is only 1/8" wide. I increased mine to 1/2" wide, as space isn't an issue with the keychain cameras.

The transition is designed to be considerably stronger than the original (the black object at the back end of the transition is one of these reinforcements). I know that the Cineroc was fragile due to the screw eye. If it landed hard on the screw eye (e.g. from a drop), the material could (and would) crack. The 2nd Cineroc suffered from just such an incident I'm guessing, as it had a piece of the transition missing (then the dog got it years later). The red portion is supposed to be the notch for the key that aligns the camera body (and thus needs to be removed, which I can't model in OR). In the actual Cineroc, the on/off switch is mounted under the key that fits in that notch. The black rings are supposed to be holes where the bulkhead and the transition would be screwed together (thus making the camera mount swappable).

The keyed bulkhead is designed to be the mount that would hold the camera's sled in place. It could also be used to hold a reproduction of the 8mm film mechanism, (if I can ever get the original scanned/drawn and then printed). Again, the four black rings are holes for screws to mount the bulkhead to the transition. Obviously, the key would be contoured to the outer diameter of the camera body, but I had to make it squared off due to the limitations of OR.

The shroud that houses the mirror isn't needed, nor the camera body. Thanks to the dog that ate the 2nd Cineroc that I got, I've got a spare that is salvageable. In the image above, the shroud is only an approximation, the actual shroud is tapered to a point, and isn't perpendicular to the body tube (see the image below). If you look at the dimensional drawing that's available, you'll see this. I suspect part of the reason for that was to prevent someone from stabbing their mirror with the launch rod, and to allow it to clear the "C" rail that Estes was selling at the time. I'm also unable to model the notch in the camera body with OR.





I've tested the camera aimed through the hole at the mirror, it worked fine. However, I can't seem to find the files I made. So, I should do it again sometime (and post the results this time). Don't have time to this weekend. Lots of homework, and another big event that I'm scheduled to make balloons at.


Pointy Side Up!
Jim

(BTW... The bulge at the front of the nosecone is just how OR simulates the nosecone, and isn't present on the real thing.) the real thing.)

View attachment Estes Cineroc 701-CM-8 Aft Transition (breakdown).ork

View attachment Estes Cineroc 701-CM-8 Keyed Bulkhead (breakdown).ork

View attachment Estes Cineroc 701-CM-8 Nosecone (breakdown).ork

View attachment Estes Cineroc CM-8 Camera Body (breakdown).ork
 
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Thanks!
...

I know you'd rather see the real thing samb, but there is a place for sims...

Yes, most definitely, there is a place for sims. Your cyber-modeling skills are very impressive and, truth be told, I'm a little jealous. But I think you'll agree that flying models are where it's at !

video rockets ready to launch.jpg

My motto: "your rocket, your rules (safely)" can be expanded to "your hobby, your rules (safely)". Keep on .orkin !! :grin:
 
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