Build: Estes Bullpup

[UfO]

Before I started in on this build I went out and grabbed some new supplies, Elmer's Wood Filler (had no luck finding sanding sealer) and Spackle for flawless (hopefully) fillets.

The kit:

Look's simple enough!

I cut out the fins and did some sanding before I watered down some of the wood filler.

Looks delicious:

I used some masking tape to stand them up for drying.

High tech fin standing device (patent pending):

Nice smooth fins using Elmers wood filler:

Engine mount:

I figured out tonight that gluing fins exactly 90 degrees apart is a pain in the butt. Even with the fin marking guide lines it was still tough to get them to stay where I needed. I'd love to get some sort of fin gluing jig but they don't seem to be readily available. That's one more project to add to the list!


....

 

[UfO]

Messy glue job:

Still drying/pre-fillets (what a cool looking rocket!):

I'll be sanding and adding fillets a little later.

I need to grab some white paint tomorrow...maybe I'll have a finished rocket by tomorrow evening!

 

[Micromeister]

Good looking build UFO:
You are aware Estes Bullpup isn't really a scale models. But it is a very Good flying model. Hope you have a very large field to fly in.
Hope you have as much fun with yours as I've had with mine over the years.

There is an Excellent Fin attachment & Alignment guide available if you have a few bucks laying around.

 

[UfO]

I'm not sure why you would say it's not a scale model. A scale model is a representation or copy of an object that is larger or smaller than the actual size of the object. It is in fact a scaled down copy of the real thing. What scale? I'm not sure. Estes doesn't specify. But it's a "scale" model none the less.

That tool looks amazing. Unfortunately I do not have the extra bucks. lol

 

[shreadvector]

The photo of all the parts does not show the clay nose weight.

You do have ALL the clay nose weight, don't you?

 

[Peartree]

I'm not sure why you would say it's not a scale model. A scale model is a representation or copy of an object that is larger or smaller than the actual size of the object. It is in fact a scaled down copy of the real thing. What scale? I'm not sure. Estes doesn't specify. But it's a "scale" model none the less.

That tool looks amazing. Unfortunately I do not have the extra bucks. lol

Folk around here understand that while this rocket is modeled/patterned after a real rocket it isn't a *scale* rocket because it takes extreme liberties with some dimensions. Most notably, the forward fins should really be very near the front of the nosecone instead of behind the nosecone and the decals are somewhat "stylized." It's still a nice rocket but if its entered in a NAR scale competition (and I've seen it done) it won't score very well.

 

[UfO]

Folk around here understand that while this rocket is modeled/patterned after a real rocket it isn't a *scale* rocket because it takes extreme liberties with some dimensions. Most notably, the forward fins should really be very near the front of the nosecone instead of behind the nosecone and the decals are somewhat "stylized." It's still a nice rocket but if its entered in a NAR scale competition (and I've seen it done) it won't score very well.

Ahhh understood.

 

[UfO]

The photo of all the parts does not show the clay nose weight.

You do have ALL the clay nose weight, don't you?

You don't see the clay because it was already packed in the nose cone.

 

[Micromeister]

I'm not sure why you would say it's not a scale model. A scale model is a representation or copy of an object that is larger or smaller than the actual size of the object. It is in fact a scaled down copy of the real thing. What scale? I'm not sure. Estes doesn't specify. But it's a "scale" model none the less.

That tool looks amazing. Unfortunately I do not have the extra bucks. lol

Wow! I find it amazing how easily people are taken in by things that are so far from representing something that actually exists.
Estes version of the bullpup isn't even a "standoff scale" of the real missile,at very best it would be called "scale like". Which I believe is how they advertise it on the package...it's been a very long time.

To be Scale;
A model of anything has to at very least follow the same "general" outline and proportions as the full size original.
There are 4 varients of the Bullpup, None of which match up very well to Estes version.
Heres a photo showing the varients and one of my Estes "Scale like" bullpup and my micro "Scale" bullpup 12b you can clearly see differences.
By the way; If you want to enter your Bullpup in a scale competition I'd suggest holding on to this photo as it's one of the very few available that can help in a Scale data pack.

Let me point out a couple of the interesting and not always so clearly noticable features on this missile.
The tail cone on 3 of the 4 varients are not a cone at all,rather a clamshell encasing two motor nozzles? It also steps in at the motor can clamshell transition and each of the main fins has a folded corner to induce roll in the flight path. The other major "creative licence" taken by Estes was moving the fins from the nose to the forward bodytube and decreasing the size.

Just so your more aware, Most commerically available kits are sometimes a starting point for scale models but very few are really that close. Even our beloved Saturns-1b and Saturn-V have major problems.. that are fixable but still not even close out of the box That's another reason Most Scale modelers build from scratch. There are a few noted exceptions....Sandman does some extremely good work on his Scale kits but still there is more to do. They would be considered a starting point. Sorry I didn't mean to get so far off the thread subject, Scale modeling is another of my many passions
Hope this helps a little, and increases your enjoyment both building and flying.

 

[UfO]

Wow! I find it amazing how easily people are taken in by things that are so far from representing something that actually exists.
Estes version of the bullpup isn't even a "standoff scale" of the real missile,at very best it would be called "scale like". Which I believe is how they advertise it on the package...it's been a very long time.

To be Scale;
A model of anything has to at very least follow the same "general" outline and proportions as the full size original.
There are 4 varients of the Bullpup, None of which match up very well to Estes version.
Heres a photo showing the varients and one of my Estes "Scale like" bullpup and my micro "Scale" bullpup 12b you can clearly see differences.
By the way; If you want to enter your Bullpup in a scale competition I'd suggest holding on to this photo as it's one of the very few available that can help in a Scale data pack.

Let me point out a couple of the interesting and not always so clearly noticable features on this missile.
The tail cone on 3 of the 4 varients are not a cone at all,rather a clamshell encasing two motor nozzles? It also steps in at the motor can clamshell transition and each of the main fins has a folded corner to induce roll in the flight path. The other major "creative licence" taken by Estes was moving the fins from the nose to the forward bodytube and decreasing the size.

Just so your more aware, Most commerically available kits are sometimes a starting point for scale models but very few are really that close. Even our beloved Saturns-1b and Saturn-V have major problems.. that are fixable but still not even close out of the box That's another reason Most Scale modelers build from scratch. There are a few noted exceptions....Sandman does some extremely good work on his Scale kits but still there is more to do. They would be considered a starting point. Sorry I didn't mean to get so far off the thread subject, Scale modeling is another of my many passions
Hope this helps a little, and increases your enjoyment both building and flying.

Thanks for the info. I should have know better than to challenge the statement of someone named Micromeister. Sorry if I came off as a tiny bit pompous...but I am at times so let's accept it and move on. lol

No worries about getting off topic I'm always receptive to new information.

And I'm assuming you read some of my blog seeing as I didn't mention the scale thing here. Thanks for looking.

I really am interested in building scale and learning more about it. Since you seem to be the go to guy could you suggest any online resources? Or even kits that might be good starting points?

Thanks again!

 

[FatBoy]

UFO...

Nice work on the Bull Pup! Don't forget to post pictures after you get it painted.

 

[Micromeister]

Actually I'm not the go to guy with regard to Scale simply one of the MANY Scale nuts in the world. That would be Peter Alway, George Gassaway, Chan Stevens or many of the other Scale modelers out here.
On-line isn't were we learn the most about scale modeling, It's really more hands on then that. Some On-line Yahoo groups Like Scaleroc are a big help, as are Scale data sources like Jim Balls Scale Data Library and of coarse getting a copy and all the suppliments of RoTW are important starting points.
But they are just that....starting points.

Scale: is one of what I think are the Basic reason most people get started in model rocketry anyway. Wanting to build and fly some of the Really KEWL looking rockets seen on TV.

But getting into the history of the prototype vehicle and researching it's background, development and deployment are where you'll find the most detail, frustration and enjoyment.

Visiting museums, Rocket farms, and other exhibits that have actural full size vehicles and mock-ups are sometimes helpful, sometimes not. Sometimes these mock-ups can confuse the issue as often as help since many were never ment to fly or are just a slapped together mass of extra parts for pubic view. It's in the document archives, Janes books, Old military history books, other mags and publications where the real GOLD is found! We dig for details and dimensions, sketches or drawings that sometimes (often) don't make it to the final project reports or "AS built" folders. To get those very old photos and obscure dimensions is like questing for lost treasure.

Living in Washington DC, I've been lucky to have been able to set aside a week a year to make appointments to visit as a researcher the National Air & Space museum National Archives. Those weeks digging through these artifacts and program documents have been extraordinary! If you have the chance, take the time to do this on your favorite prototypes. It takes a little planning but your time will be well spent. Look for old engineering and space weekly news mags and trade publications. I've found a lot of gold in them as well.
Hope that helps a little, I'm sure others well join in with lots more helpful hints.

 

[Queeg500]

Nice work! The Bullpup was my first kit as a BAR and now I have about 4 of them - one modded to fly D12's.

 

[Fred22]

BUMP How did it turn out in the end? I love the Bullpup as it was my first rocket I ever built. I still have some of the bits and pieces I really like the pictures and technique in this thread? Have you considerred a flikits thunderbird? It's a challenge because there is a lot of wood but man what a sence of accomplishment when you are done
Cheers
fred

 

[DM1975]

This was my very first kit I ever built as well. I do not have the original one but I have rebuilt it since and have flown the tar out of it. I finally snapped a fin a couple weeks ago. This kit is one great flyer and you look like you are doing a first rate job at building it too.