Black Cat phenolic

[JohnCoker]

I just received some very nice tubing from Black Cat Rockets. It's a "seamless phenolic" tube with very consistent thickness. This is a good alternative for Europeans, especially the UK:
https://www.blackcatrocketry.co.uk/products/phenolic-airframe-tube
I was pointed to this tube by someone using my body tube comparison page:
http://www.jcrocket.com/body-tubes.shtml

 

[sharkbait]

I just received some very nice tubing from Black Cat Rockets. It's a "seamless phenolic" tube with very consistent thickness. This is a good alternative for Europeans, especially the UK:
https://www.blackcatrocketry.co.uk/products/phenolic-airframe-tube
I was pointed to this tube by someone using my body tube comparison page:
http://www.jcrocket.com/body-tubes.shtml

How bad was the shipping???

 

[Hobie1dog]

looks like it ranks very high in your weight comparison chart, only thing heavier is fiberglass

 

[jmasterj]

Looks a bit like XX phenolic to me. I'd definitely be interested to hear anyone experience with it.

 

[JohnCoker]

looks like it ranks very high in your weight comparison chart, only thing heavier is fiberglass

It's very similar to the MAC Performance tubing, but with a more consistent thickness.
It's also made on a mandrel and then the outside ground down so the inside is smooth and the outside has a slight roughness.

Note that tube is 99mm ID, so it's a sloppy fit on traditional couplers and nose cones.

 

[jmasterj]

As far as I know the MAC Performance canvas phenolic tube is ground down in the outside as well.

 

[Tim51]

Obviously being a UK rocketeer I've used Black Cat Phenolic a few times on various builds. Like all fully cured phenolics it can seem a little brittle compared with, say, Loc cardboard. BC seamless phenolic features in at least one of the build threads I've posted on TRF. The absence of grooves is very welcome, particularly when painting. I've used it 'raw' and also with an fg wrap. I've found all BC products/stock to be of high quality.

 

[scpearson1]

.

 

[scpearson1]

I use this tubing and believe the shipping is worth it. I have never used 4 inch, but found 3 inch similar, 2.6 only a few grams per foot heavier, and 38mm lighter. But I am OCD, so the fact that the CAT tube has by my measurements almost no runout makes a big difference. It's not dense and uneven like MAC. (Really, take your favorite phenolic and roll it on a granite or glass countertop, you will most likely be surprised, your rocket is a banana.) not so with this as far as I have seen. Also if you take your phenolic and fill the seams sand, prime, sand prime etc. then weigh agenst cat.. well.. you will see.

 

[mike2wander]

I'm pretty sure Black Cat Phenolic is XX, ours is CE. They're both convolute wound on a mandrel and the OD is center less ground. I can't tell you why the wall consistency varies between products. I can tell you that our CE is lighter than the XX. It's seems most all types of tubes we use in our hobby have they're plus and minus......I can assure you I'm not in the business of selling bananas ;^)

 

[scpearson1]

If you get a sample of the BC you will see spiral winding on the inside, on the outside you see no indication of spiral wind. Not sure how this is finished but it is impressive, and as far as runout I would be happy to post pictures of the difference. With the BC runout is better than any phenolic tubing I have used to date, and thickness is very consistent.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

All phenolic based composites with the exception of G3 (glass phenolic) are brittle. A rough landing and it will break. In 1990 I had some LE (linen phenolic) and it broke much easier than the LOC 5.5" tube that I had cloned.

 

[scpearson1]

Adding to the post above. don't take my word. take any PML, GL, or MAC tubing and roll it on a granite or glass tabletop. whatever gap you see in the center not touching, double that and this is your runout. If you do this with filament wound fiberglass you will detect almost no runout, the same with BC.. at least what I have sampled. Also, the BC comes in lighter per inch in all sizes than the MAC. and the finish is paint ready, it is a real contender for the person looking for a quality/precision build.

 

[scpearson1]

All phenolic based composites with the exception of G3 (glass phenolic) are brittle. A rough landing and it will break. In 1990 I had some LE (linen phenolic) and it broke much easier than the LOC 5.5" tube that I had cloned.

 

[Tim51]

If you get a sample of the BC you will see spiral winding on the inside, on the outside you see no indication of spiral wind. Not sure how this is finished but it is impressive, and as far as runout I would be happy to post pictures of the difference. With the BC runout is better than any phenolic tubing I have used to date, and thickness is very consistent.

Really..? None of the Black Cat phenolic I've used or have in stock now has spirals on the inside. AFAIK the whole point is they're seamless:
https://www.blackcatrocketry.co.uk/products/phenolic-airframe-tube

 

[scpearson1]

Really..? None of the Black Cat phenolic I've used or have in stock now has spirals on the inside. AFAIK the whole point is they're seamless:
https://www.blackcatrocketry.co.uk/products/phenolic-airframe-tube

I have some 38 and 2.6 with a clear spiral on the inside only, will try to get a good picture to post.

 

[scpearson1]

I have some 38 and 2.6 with a clear spiral on the inside only, will try to get a good picture to post.

 

[scpearson1]

Ok, so in the pic above you see a 2.6 BC tube. clearly it starts life as spiral wound. then somehow ends up precision ground, no spiral, consistent thickness and no runout.?? my 38mm BC is exactly the same..