Best Rocket for L1 and L2 certs

[edwardw]

Hello All,
I am wanting to get my L1 and L2 certifcations and would like one rocket to do both for me. We have an EX group starting where I live and to fly with them you have to be L1 and L2 certified. I would like to try and keep the cost of the L1/L2 rocket to a minimum. Anyone have good suggestions? Also - is it possible just to 'rent' flights for cert? Or do you have to own the casings and such?

Edward

www.stlrocketry.com

 

[lalligood]

Edward,

Welcome to TRF

I'm going to take a shot at answering your questions in reverse order.

NO, you do not have to own the casings but you do have to own (& most importantly have built) the rocket itself. I would think that almost anyone in the club wouldn't mind loaning you a casing...just work out the details with them ahead of time.

Then as far as the rocket goes, probably the best way to save money is to build one rocket that is light enough for your Level 1 flight but can stand up to the thrust from a Level 2 motor. One rocket, 2 certifications. I'm sure other people will chime in with recommendations for particular rockets but a couple I'd suggest looking at are the BSD Horizon & LOC Mini-Magg.

But then again, I thought the whole point of HPR was to spend LOTS of money

 

[loopy]

I think the BSD Thor would work as well. Glass the tube and the fins, get it with the alt bay for dual deploy, and you're all set.

Loopy

 

[firemanup]

Check out my web page for pics of the BSD kits, i've built several of them.

I too would recomend either the 4" BSD Horizon or the 4" BSD Thor as good candidates that would do both your level 1 and 2 flights. Built stock they would work fine.

Here's a pic of the 3" and 4" Horizons... I've got a page on my site with pics of the Thor also if you're interested.

<img src="https://members.aol.com/rocketcollector/images/tannorhorizon.jpg">

 

[bsexton]

...but I would vote for the BSD 4" Horizon as well. Depending on the field you are flying from you can plan on about 2,000 feet for your Level 1 with an "H" motor and 4,000+ feet for your Level 2 with a "J" motor. If your field is big enough (or the wind calm enough) you wouldn't even have to worry with electronic dual deployment to help keep the costs down.

 

[Scale Rocketeer]

A Pro 38 5 grain motor with a smokey sam 5 grain reload is an "I" and can be used for Level 1. With the standard 5 grain reload it is a "J" and can be used for Level 2.

The following rocket kits have a 12" long motor mount and will fly nicely on the Pro38 5 grain even though the engine sticks through a couple of inches beyond the motor tube:

https://www.scalerockets.com/pehonestjohn.html
https://www.scalerockets.com/pev2.html
https://www.scalerockets.com/pebullpup1.html

 

[Austin]

For a combo rocket that can cert you at both levels, one of my favorites would be the PML Amraam 4. It's big enough to handle the J motors, yet can fly on a H motor. The unique features of piston ejection and Quantum tube make wadding and bp buildup a thing of the past. The piston system eliminates the need for wadding and really works well, while the Quantum plastic body tubes are totally washable, allowing you to douse them with a hose or wash them in a sink after a launch. Moreover, they can handle any weather, including being hung in a tree or falling in a lake, all things that I have read here. Moreover, the smooth Quantum tube allows for a flawless, no spiral finish which paints like a dream.

As you can tell, I am hooked on the PML kits...they are good stuff, priced well and very durable. My AMRAAM 4 now has over 30 flights on it, all altimeter based, and most on J motors and it still is in good shape...proof of durability. Take a look at www.publicmissiles.com and see what they have...gawd you would think I was a salesman or something...sheesh. Actually, I just like them alot. That doesn't mean to say there are not other good kits out there...BSD, LOC, Binder, Scale Rocketry and more; all have their niche in the hobby and I am glad for it!

Good luck on you purchase and keep us informed,

Carl

 

[MarkABrown]

Originally posted by CTulanko
Take a look at www.publicmissiles.com and see what they have...gawd you would think I was a salesman or something...sheesh.

...And you LOOK like a salesman too, especially since it's your picture next to the AMRAAM 4 on the PML site!

 

[loopy]

Carl's right - PML is good too. They also have the Eclipse which comes with the CPR3000 unit built in - good way to learn DD if you don't know how to do it, and can handle L1 and L2 flights as well..

Loopy

 

[sandman]

I only have one complaint about PML.

They have to get the ice cleared from in front of thier door!

Man it's so hard to get an armload of 5' x 11.5" tubes out the door when it won't open all the way!

Huh, Carl.

sandman

 

[greg_g]

If you're looking for nice and easy PML kits are tough to beat. The quantum tube makes it almost impossible to not get a good finish. My choice for my L1 & L2 was a PML Tethys. L1 was done on a 2 grain Pro38 H143SS and L2 on a 5 grain Pro38 J285.

Follow the directions to the letter and foam the fin can and it will take all the abuse you can give it. Simple and clean way to level 2 and limited cash outlay. Besides that its a nice lookin 4" bird. Very similar in appearance and price is the BSD Horizon. (I have a new Horizon 54 in the box crying to be built) The choice comes down to plastic or cardboard. You find proponents and detractors for both. I like QT for ease of finish and the piston ejection. Cardboard is great for cold weather (below freezing) when QT gets brittle.

For L1 and L2 dont worry about glassing a bird. The object of the game is up and down with nothing fancy. You get no bonus points for putting a full glass bird to 10-15K with dual deployment on a K550. In fact the more power and more goodies you put in, the less likely a sucessful flight will take place. Make it simple, simple, simple.

 

[edwardw]

After reading your advice, what do you all think of the 1/4 scale Patriot from PML? It has a 12" payload that I can put my altimeter in (i'm using a perfectflite MAWD). I like the rocket. I know for the J350W reload it requires very attentive building. As a construction manager I have access to some epoxy that is used to set anchor bolts into concrete - it is 25,000psi stuff. Any suggestions?

 

[edwardw]

Also, I have not explained why I want a L1/L2 rocket that is the same. At my club here (Northern Colorado Rocketry) we are starting an EX program. To launch you need to be L2 certified. I have made my own KNO3/Sugar motors for a while, but back where I lived I was in the middle of nowhere and had a field of 4 square miles to fly in. (It was private land owned by a farmer friend of mine) I could fly my own stuff there all the time. Now coming to Fort Collins their is no place to fly, so I decided to join a club and Tripoli. The rocket will be used just for L1/L2, as I have many scratch built ones for my own hardware. Also, I am going to attempt to borrow casings from club members to certify, and just buy the reloads.

 

[firemanup]

I know nothing of the EX motor... however BSD does claim that the 4" Thor is hybrid compatible with a 17" long 54mm motor tube..

Would that be something you could also use with your present ex hardware/motors.. ? Could be three birds with one stone then...

 

[edwardw]

I am just looking for a rocket to fly L1/L2 certifications with certified motors. I build my own motors and scratch projects with my EX motors. Maybe 5 years down the line I will go for L3..

 

[firemanup]

Yeh i understand that.... i was just thinking that if it would work it could then fall into your ex fleet as well... just another option to fly your ex motors in....

 

[edwardw]

I dont think it would work for my ex motors, most are between 3 and 8 inches in diameter and the tallest is 36"....they are from K - N class motors.

 

[mikeyd]

Edward, If you want to stay as cheap as possible, you might try building scratch. I did level 2 with a 54" tall 5" dia Crayon bank converted to rocket. Used 5 ply birch plywood for the fins, some old plywood from cable reel ends for the centering rings, a parachute made from a golf umbrella, and a 38mm motor tube from 1.5" mailing tube. I could have used it for my Level 1, as I fly it on H220's with a 29mm adapter. It weighs in at 6.5 lbs, and flew great on a Cessarone Pro38 5 grain J285 for my Level 2. Here is a link to what I built.
https://members.cox.net/shortckt4/Rockets1.html#crayon

Hope this helps!
Happy Flying!

 

[edwardw]

I have been scratch building kits for a while, how does this sound then. Since a 38 mm motor fits in a 1.5" mailing tube this is what I will do.. Our club rents Pro38 hardware. I will need a 2 grain and 5 grains for L1/L2. I go get some 1.5" mailing tube. This is the motor mount and the rocket body. The motor section will be about 16" long. Then I slap another 24" of 1.5 mailing tube for parachute/payload. I will use a perfectflite MAWD in dual deploy mode for both flights. The altimeter/Batter take up around 9" of room, leaving me 15" for two 36" parachutes for recovery. I will use plywood fins (epoxied on). Also I will use a wood block for my motor rention and to connect my parachute. I will have the motor screw retained at the bottom. A small donut of plexiglass will be at the bottom, and will be screwed in from the sides.

Sound good?

Edward

 

[daveyfire]

Uhhh... a minimum diameter rocket with a 5-grain motor will get over 10,000 feet... not something I would want to try on a cert flight, but sounds like a fun motor for after the cert If you're looking for cheap, 3" mailing tubes make very nice body tubes. You'll definitely be able to fly one on an H, and a 5-grain motor will still take it 5000-6000 feet depending on how light you build it. See a rocket I built like that here: https://daveysplace.netfirms.com/Projects/Level2/inspector_gadget.htm

Hope that helps!

 

[Stymye]

for cheap purposes, mabey scratch build something.

or a 4" or 5.5" kit would work well..ditch the electronics,, pistons and other unnecessary componets for the cert flights ..
like someone earlier posted ,you dont get extra points for gizmos or altitude..the object is simply to launch and recover an intact rocket

anything extra added is just more possible things to go wrong
you are out the cost of a reload ,not to mention the repairs

although there is absolutly nothing wrong with dual deployment ,,and other acessories.
you sound like your looking for the best cost to success ratio

you could do the L-1 flight naked (the rocket that is)
than bring it home, glass the fins
or mabey glass the whole thing If you want to add weight..to keep it in visual range for L-2

there are as many opinions ,as there are options.

good luck whatever you decide

 

[edwardw]

Well, I went down to Office Depot and picked up some 1.5" tube for a motor mount and some 3" tube for the airframe. Complete design will be around 54" tall - 18" motor/fins and then 36" of parachute/altimeter, I can probably cut that down to 24" though. I have a nose cone here - a glassed cone that I will use. I will have to epoxy soak some balsa.
Target date is 2/7/04 for my L1 flight.