3D Printing Berd air on CR10

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Dustin Lobner

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Hi everyone,

What do people think of the Berd air system? Seemed kinda neat to me so I picked up a kit. Seems to work really well...first print going now, so that's kinda TBD.

I had heard complaints about how loud it was...it's way quieter than the original "non silent" steppers that my CR-10 came with.

Anyone have any tips or experience with it?

Thanks!

Dustin
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0011001100

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Details on that part cooling setup? How well does it work? Looks perfect for a printing with high temp materials as there isn't a plastic shroud that can droop.
 

Dustin Lobner

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No idea how well it works, thats why I was asking! :p

It seems like it should work well. The air is directed downward at the part, not across the nozzle which I think would help keep the air where it needs to be. It's blowing a lot of air for the tiny orifices that it has. Powered by something that looks like an aquarium pump, using a breakout board that takes signal straight from the pins on the main board (SKR 1.4 Turbo in my case).

Sometimes you'll see this same thing but with two "tusks". It's the same idea, but two parallel tubes instead of the ring. FWIW, I like the ring setup.

Here's the kit: https://the-makerhive.myshopify.com/products/berd-air-max
 

Dustin Lobner

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Status report. First print under way, qualitatively at least it looks a lot better than the stock CR-10 cooling. Crisper lines and corners, etc.

Only thing of note is that the motor on it gets HOT. I can hold it for about a second before I have to drop it, so I'm guessing 150*F or so? The pump portion stays cooler, so I'm going to design and build a mount to hold it off of the ground...if I can find a heatsink that goes on the outside of the motor, I'll do that.

Currently have the motor running 80%, so hypothetically 20% less heat but the ring is hissing like mad yet, so I think we're all good.

First print 1/4 done. Enthusiastic so far.
 

Dustin Lobner

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How's the noise level on it so far?
It's in the corner of the basement and I can hear the hiss at the bottom of the stairs. The pump itself isn't bad at all.

The issue is about 90% overblown IMHO. It's quieter than the stock stepper drivers on my CR-10. Not quieter than the TMC2208's I'm running now.
 

Dustin Lobner

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Couple of pictures...probably the best "bridging over support" that my printer has ever done.

IMG_20210717_070831631.jpg

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dvdsnyd

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Looks super crisp! I always get concerned about strength and brittleness when cooling so quickly though. Any concerns here?
What material are you printing?
 

Scrapmaster87

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I've always wondered how a system like that would work. Though I bet if you stuck a vortex cooler on your air line you can do some really magical things.
 

Dustin Lobner

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Looks super crisp! I always get concerned about strength and brittleness when cooling so quickly though. Any concerns here?
What material are you printing?
Cheapo PLA.

A lot less concern than with normal air cooling. Normal cooling, air is blowing around by the nozzle, making it possible to cool before it fuses to the layer below. This one blows the air on the layer after it's laid down, so I think it's better than normal.

If I get a chance, I'll print some and do some tensile testing. Don't have a "normal" fan, I can just set a fan on it or something, lol.
 

Dustin Lobner

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Damn now I want to make one of these. That looks beautiful. I've gotten close with a lot of tuning of settings, but never that good.
Yeah...and that's with year old Chinese PLA that has been stored in the open basement (humid) and not dehydrated before printing.

I have a Garolite build surface on the way. Can't wait to see how this does with Nylon.
 

0011001100

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Can't wait to see how this does with Nylon.
I want to print better with ABS and ASA and the likes. I wonder how effective it will be sucking in air from inside the hot enclosure. The noise will likely not matter as the enclosure my roommate and I built is made of MDF. It insulates well but also dampens the sounds a ton.
 

Dustin Lobner

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I want to print better with ABS and ASA and the likes. I wonder how effective it will be sucking in air from inside the hot enclosure. The noise will likely not matter as the enclosure my roommate and I built is made of MDF. It insulates well but also dampens the sounds a ton.
It pulls air from outside and blows it thru the tube, so the air will be room temp going into the heated enclosure. Will likely warm up some on the way I'd expect....especially with mine where the tube is touching the heater block, lol
 

0011001100

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It pulls air from outside and blows it thru the tube, so the air will be room temp going into the heated enclosure. Will likely warm up some on the way I'd expect....especially with mine where the tube is touching the heater block, lol
Thing is that the Duet board is inside the enclosure as well so I would have to put the motor inside.
 

Dustin Lobner

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Thing is that the Duet board is inside the enclosure as well so I would have to put the motor inside.
Interface with the control board is two 22ga wires...would be possible at least to route that to outside the enclosure? The motor gets hot, I'd be worried about it getting even hotter.
 

0011001100

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Interface with the control board is two 22ga wires...would be possible at least to route that to outside the enclosure? The motor gets hot, I'd be worried about it getting even hotter.
Possibly. I'd likely by the pieces individually and make a custom setup as thats just how we like to go. One of our printers is running a completely custom dual motor direct drive to one nozzle setup that I designed from scratch. Its more fun this way.
 

Dustin Lobner

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Possibly. I'd likely by the pieces individually and make a custom setup as thats just how we like to go. One of our printers is running a completely custom dual motor direct drive to one nozzle setup that I designed from scratch. Its more fun this way.
Awesome!

I've had two printers so far, a Monoprice Maker and now this CR-10. I've modded the crap our of the CR-10...next step is to build a printer from scratch. That's going to be a HevORT. After that, maybe I'll take a crack at designing one.

The HevORT is gonna be about 800x800xhowever tall I can fit, prolly 800 or so. I'm planning on just having 400x400 bed on it (lower heating requirements and easier to have a flat bed) but have a lot bigger build area. Goal is to be able to print a 7.5" fincan in one piece.
 

dvdsnyd

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Trevor, Any reason why you didn't print that can the other way to avoid the supports?
 

Dustin Lobner

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Trevor - What are your thoughts on CF in the PETG? How much harder/easier is it to print? I printed a full up fincan like that one, oriented like you did, out of non-CF Tough PLA and it handled a J450 w/o issue.

I have another one planned that I'm going to fly on an L1000, to be made with straight PETG.

Here's how that'll look on the printer:

Capture2a.PNG
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The leading edge of the fins is at 45* or so, hoping I won't need supports there.
 

0011001100

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Trevor, Any reason why you didn't print that can the other way to avoid the supports?
Top side is chamfered. There would literally have only been one perimeter on the bed. Also with the fins supported they are less likely to flew during bed moves.

Trevor - What are your thoughts on CF in the PETG? How much harder/easier is it to print? I printed a full up fincan like that one, oriented like you did, out of non-CF Tough PLA and it handled a J450 w/o issue.
The stuff I got is from: https://3dprintingcanada.com/
It is the best PETG to print with ever. It does like it hot (245C) but otherwise can print at PLA speeds (not a fincan though, hence the change in print quality as I slowed it down). I then coated the whole fincan in 3 layers of epoxy, sanding in between each layer. Final result was very smooth and stiff. Problem is I then landed directly on a fin on the one paved road coming into the farm...
The epoxy broke along the lines that the fincan broke and was damn near impossible to pull apart by hand. I could only peel small sections off of the body tube so it went in the trash. Version two of that fincan has an opening in it for aluminum plates as reinforcement. (tested with a PLA can to make sure I can fit the plates in).


EDIT: The V2 fincan is hopefully gonna be able to survive mach plus flights repeatedly, thats why I am doing the aluminum plate idea.
 

dvdsnyd

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@0011001100
That makes sense. I do something similar, but have about 2 perimeters. Hasn't let go yet :)

Would you be able to provide a little more detail(pics perhaps) of your aluminum plate reinforcement of your 3d printed fin can? It sounds interesting.

Dave
 

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@0011001100
That makes sense. I do something similar, but have about 2 perimeters. Hasn't let go yet :)

Would you be able to provide a little more detail(pics perhaps) of your aluminum plate reinforcement of your 3d printed fin can? It sounds interesting.

Dave
Maybe once I actually put one together. If any of the jobs I applied to would respond and offer me a job so I could have some money... then I could order the parts all needed for that particular rocket. But as it sits I am playing with various propellants currently as its cheaper.

BTW I am printing with 3 perimeters on either side of the plate as well. This gives room for sanding as I sand the fins somewhat smooth before the first coat of epoxy. Based on the previous fincan, I sanded about half of a perimeter off each side and then put on about that much in epoxy.
 

Dustin Lobner

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My way of dealing with fincans, in the past, was to print them like the CF+PETG one up further on the thread.

The thing that sucked about it was that the slight bit of "elephants toe" or whatever you want to call it always made the ID of the motor mount area too small, so I had to do a bunch of sanding and filing for the motor to fit right.

This next time around, I sliced off the top 2" or so off the fin can ("top" as the rocket is pointed up). Going to print the bulk of the fincan upside down with that nice, wide surface to sit on. Will then print the last 2" by itself. Plan is to epoxy the last 2" to the body tube to give another surface to transmit the thrust through.
 

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The thing that sucked about it was that the slight bit of "elephants toe" or whatever you want to call it always made the ID of the motor mount area too small, so I had to do a bunch of sanding and filing for the motor to fit right.
I bought big sanding disks (up to 2" or so) and spun them in my drill to get the inside nice and smooth with a fit good enough to allow some glue between.
This next time around, I sliced off the top 2" or so off the fin can ("top" as the rocket is pointed up). Going to print the bulk of the fincan upside down with that nice, wide surface to sit on. Will then print the last 2" by itself. Plan is to epoxy the last 2" to the body tube to give another surface to transmit the thrust through.
I debated doing this for the reinforced fins, however, I ended up just extending the slot to the top and cut a small channel in the top of the fins to allow the plate to slide in (it was slightly larger than the 54mm tube opening) and then I will just fill the gaps with epoxy.
 
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