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AKPilot

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You guys aren't going to believe this!

Many of you remember my fight for the right to fly in my local park found on TRF 1.0 found here Park Approval.

Well it seems that Mr. Park Director is, once again, attempting to put the squeeze on our activities, through a back-door policy.

Part of the original agreement is that he'd let us use the 100+ acres of grass fields, free of charge, as long as we don't launch there during soccer season. Well now he's stating that the city ordinance concerning model rocket launching (which, btw, I drafted for him), doesn't say he has to give us anything free of charge. So he'd like to start charging us (SPARC) for field usage (we have less than 10 active members). :mad:

So I've thrown back to him that the ordinance also doesn't state he must charge either. :D


More to come . . .
 

Peartree

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All local governments (state and fed too) are scrounging for dollars wherever they may be found. Our county ran out of paper at the courthouse and lawyers had to bring their own if they wanted to file a motion (honest, it was even on CNN) and our Sheriff's office is only staffed 18 hours a day. It may not be personal, they may be after everyone who uses any government property.
 

billspad

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Get used to it. We fly on four different fields and we have to pay for all of them. For one of them we have top pay even if we get rained out. We're happy when we've had enough flights in a day to get it below a buck a flight.
 

rocketman

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looking at the old thread... that football coach kicked your rocket? what a [bleeping bleep]. [bleeping] soccer/games coaches...
anyway, good luck fighting for your field. If it's a public place, then why is playing football/rugby/cricket free when launching rockets isn't?
 

AKPilot

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I can't believe that a Sheriff's department is only manned 18 hours a day! :y: Seems like that's an open invitation on when to do stuff.

I've pointed out to the park officials that we simply need a permit to launch, we do not need to reserve a field - as 90% of the time, there's no one else using the all of fields when we launch (as we launch outside of soccer season). I've also pointed out that this is no different from other people showing up and deciding to play football or throw a frisbee.

As a side note, the soccer leagues do pay for field reservations, however they're also generating a profit from their activities.
 

MysticalRockets

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All local governments (state and fed too) are scrounging for dollars wherever they may be found. Our county ran out of paper at the courthouse and lawyers had to bring their own if they wanted to file a motion (honest, it was even on CNN) and our Sheriff's office is only staffed 18 hours a day. It may not be personal, they may be after everyone who uses any government property.

Ever notice how much parking tickets have gone up?

There is your biggest revenue generator for small to large cities. And no one, no matter how much they complain, ever tries to do anything about it.

Ever watch Parking Wars? I'm glad I don't live in Philly or Detroit. 300 bucks for a handicapped violation (Which I agree with), and 31 bucks for not feeding the meter (which is a bit excessive).
 

powderburner

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Maybe, agree to pay a reasonable fee for a "large" group or organized club launch, in which case you can probably get each guy launching to pitch in a buck.

OTOH, if only a few guys show up to launch (3? 4? 6?) why should they have to pay a fee? I mean, what's the difference between a few guys showing up to toss a football (and not having to pay fees) and a few other guys showing up to launch rockets?

If they are going to require fees for two guys to launch, then they should require fees from ALL park users or else it is discrimination.
 

Peartree

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I can't believe that a Sheriff's department is only manned 18 hours a day! :y: Seems like that's an open invitation on when to do stuff.
I suspect that a dispatcher still answers the phone, but no one is on patrol. In the case of gunshots or major mayhem, the dispatcher will call the local State Patrol office. Problem is, their budgets got cut too so they are less available than they used to be.
 

shreadvector

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Well, those who attend our after launch meetings for SCRA section 430 already know this, but those who don't will soon find out via our YahooGroup when I post a notice.

Many state and local governments are facing severe budget shortages and are doing everything they can to keep from cutting back on services like police and even parks and recreation. Our situation in California is no different or even worse as our state and county governments face serious revenue shortfalls from the bad economy (and overspending....). As a result, the COunty of Los Angeles has revised all the parking fees at the regional parks and they are now $10 per passenger car with no seasonal variation (it used to be $8 during peak season and $6 during off-peak season). Also, they are now charging rental fees for co-sponsored events like ours. The good news is they are only charging 25% of the normal rental fee for a minimum sized rental area, but that sill comes to $62.50 per launch date. In the past we charged ZERO for participants. The Park Superintendent says that we should charge participants as we see fit to recover our expenses. We will be conducting a poll on our YahooGroup as part of the discussion of the participant fees. Our after launch discussion was leaning toward $1 per person launching per day with fee waived for NAR members who can show an NAR license with Section 430 on it. Encouraging NAR membership is good as it provides us with our multiple specially worded certificates of insurance so that we can use the launch site. As always, ANYONE can come and launch any safe and legal Model Rocket and they do not have to be a member of the NAR or have any personal insurance - that's part of being a co-sponsored event. Also as part of being a co-sponsored event we must state this and display the 3 logos of the government agencies who are co-sponsers. We must now add the $10 vehicle fee and whatever participant fee we decide on to our flyers/calendar-of-events.

For rain-outs, we can choose another rain date anytime during the year when there are no other conflicting events or ask for a refund. And remember, we launch behind a flood control dam, so if ther is a BIG rainy season, we could be flooded out for a few months until the waters percolate into the ground or are released down river.

More to come as we move along.
 

mjennings

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Good luck Troy, That's rough after the battle you went through. Rocketry not jock enough ha! He's never had to run from a high power shred!!
 

Donaldsrockets

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It sounds like your local park director is trying to seek revenge by looking for a possible loophole to exploit.

But it sounds like you've got all your bases covered so hopefully everything will work out.:)

Good luck
 

shreadvector

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In addition to my previous posting, here are some other things to consider:

1) If you enter into an agreement (i.e. get a "Park Use Permit"), then you have semi-primary rights to use that agreed upon part of the park on the days designated, and your copy of the signed agreement will settle and questions raised by other park patrons or patrol officers. you will still get bumped if there is a real emergency (like we get bumped when they set up firefighting base camps in our park to battle massive fires in the maountains - google our site to see how close we are to the recent "station fire").

2) If you are the only legal launch site in the area/region, you can expand membership and participation by advertising that fact. Place "LAUNCH SITE INFO" signs in regular hobby shops and stickers on every pack of motors and kit/launch set/starter set at mass merchandisers. Sample sticker is attached.

You guys aren't going to believe this!

Many of you remember my fight for the right to fly in my local park found on TRF 1.0 found here Park Approval.

Well it seems that Mr. Park Director is, once again, attempting to put the squeeze on our activities, through a back-door policy.

Part of the original agreement is that he'd let us use the 100+ acres of grass fields, free of charge, as long as we don't launch there during soccer season. Well now he's stating that the city ordinance concerning model rocket launching (which, btw, I drafted for him), doesn't say he has to give us anything free of charge. So he'd like to start charging us (SPARC) for field usage (we have less than 10 active members). :mad:

So I've thrown back to him that the ordinance also doesn't state he must charge either. :D


More to come . . .
View attachment LABL2WWW.DOC
 

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