B14's --- any market?

[JStarStar]

OK, I am definitely aging myself as an OTDer here, but has there ever been any serious talk of anybody reintroducing core-burning engines such as the old Estes B14 series?


Back in the day, B14s were often used to get bulky, heavy models off the pad in a hurry and counteract the tendency to weathercock. They were very often used as booster stages of 2- and 3-stagers to kick 'em off the pad in a hurry and get them up to speed.

Probably a B14 series could be made, along with possibly a C16, and maybe a D20 and E22.

Since i am not a professional rocket engine designer of course I don't know all the technical stuff that goes into manufacturing engines, but I would THINK all you have to do is insert a molded mandrel form into the engine when loading the propellant to create the core-burning hole. (Although as I recall B14s' did have wider nozzles than regular B series engines). Of course there are probably issues with the casing holding up under combustion pressure.

But in my misty memories of the 1960s and 70s, I don't remember any chronic problems with B14 engines. As far as I can remember they were as reliable as any of the others.

 

[rstaff3]

I loved the B14s also and would like them back. I don't remember any failures with them, but then I don't remember any CATOed Estes motors in my early rocket days or as a BAR for the first time.

I can't remember where I saw this, but in a recent discussion someone said that the reason the B14s went away is that the manufacturing costs were high. If the market would bear the cost, then this shouldn't be an issue.

Oh, BTW, welcome to the group!

 

[shreadvector]

They cost too much to make and they did not sell as well as other motors (B6, C6).

For heavy lift applications, they tried to lower the manufacturing costs with the C5 and B8 motors, but they did not sell well either.

Now we have the C11 motor to handle the heavy lift job. IF YOU LIKE THIS TYPE OF MOTOR AND WANT IT TO STAY AROUND, YOU NEED TO BUY THEM, FLY THEM, AND THEN KEEP BUYING AND FLYING THEM.

Of course, I have no idea what Quest has on the horizon.....we can only hope.

Originally posted by JStarStar
OK, I am definitely aging myself as an OTDer here, but has there ever been any serious talk of anybody reintroducing core-burning engines such as the old Estes B14 series?


Back in the day, B14s were often used to get bulky, heavy models off the pad in a hurry and counteract the tendency to weathercock. They were very often used as booster stages of 2- and 3-stagers to kick 'em off the pad in a hurry and get them up to speed.

Probably a B14 series could be made, along with possibly a C16, and maybe a D20 and E22.

Since i am not a professional rocket engine designer of course I don't know all the technical stuff that goes into manufacturing engines, but I would THINK all you have to do is insert a molded mandrel form into the engine when loading the propellant to create the core-burning hole. (Although as I recall B14s' did have wider nozzles than regular B series engines). Of course there are probably issues with the casing holding up under combustion pressure.

But in my misty memories of the 1960s and 70s, I don't remember any chronic problems with B14 engines. As far as I can remember they were as reliable as any of the others.

 

[n3tjm]

Costing to much to make was only one of the reasons why they were to expensive to make. They were also dangerous to make. How they did it was take a normal B motor, and with a specially designed drill bill, drill the nozzle and core into the motor. THIS IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and even with the specially designed drill bit, they had several go off. So they decided to bag it.

Today, with motor manfacturing technology the way it is, it would not be too difficult to safely make high thrust motors... but like he said, the high thrust motors did not sell as well.

The C11's are hot motors. I love them. Keep buying them, to keep them around.

I wish Estes would bring back the A10-0T. Great motor... but they discontinued them because they did not sell many... and they did not sell many because they did not offer kits that used them. Bring back the motor... make the kits. I have several cool designs that use them, and Fliskits and Semorc both have rockets that use them.

 

[rstaff3]

I bet Fred was the source I mentioned I also agree with him about the C11s. Keeping them around is a better use of our energies than pleading for B14s! (although I'd still like to have some)

 

[eugenefl]

Heck, I love the C11. It's a great "punch" motor. It even puts up my BT80 based Estes V2 to a good 250-300ft. Great motor for small fields on bigger rockets! I've got about 6 packs in my box right now. I can't burn them fast enough!

 

[bcdlr]

Originally posted by eugenefl
Great motor for small fields on bigger rockets!

How small is a small field?
The place I would favor is probably six-nine soccer fields 'stuck' together - three wide by three long. BUT it is surrounded by trees or trees and houses.
I'm thinking for my D powered Icarus video camera carrier.
Dan
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[Zack Lau]

Aerotech already sells D21 and E30 single use motors, if you want high thrust Ds and Es.
I've had good luck pistoning BP motors for quick takeoffs.
A pistoned A10 or D12 really gets a helicopter recovery rocket moving fast enough to avoid weathercocking.