Available 'motor starters'?

[davel]

What igniters are currently available as a higher quality and reliability replacement for Estes solar igniters for use with BP clusters? In particular, anything that is reliable when wired in series? I've been inactive for a while now and haven't kept up.

Dave

 

[Andrew_ASC]

What igniters are currently available as a higher quality and reliability replacement for Estes solar igniters for use with BP clusters? In particular, anything that is reliable when wired in series? I've been inactive for a while now and haven't kept up.

Dave

Go check out the Loki with Estes sonic. You will find sources to build HPR APCP igniters cheaper in a bunch of sizes. MJG firewires also work and aren't ATF regulated. These were reliable if you had the current required.

 

[rharshberger]

MJG now offers BP and AP motor ignitors as well as Firewires for deployment.

 

[LithosphereRocketry]

Why do you need to wire them in series? I just use old-style Estes igniters wired in parallel- I've done 3 on a car battery system with no relay, no problem, and you can probably do more. If you don't have those, the MJG BP starters are probably the best- I haven't used them though.

How many motors are you trying to cluster?

Boris Katan is really the person to ask- delta22 on the forum I believe. He's made several massive mixed-propellant clusters using Rocketflite ematches IIRC.

 

[Bat-mite]

Get a little fabric glue and dip your Estes igniters in BP. Increases reliability by a large margin.

 

[Charles_McG]

Go check out the Loki with Estes sonic. You will find sources to build HPR APCP igniters cheaper in a bunch of sizes. MJG firewires also work and aren't ATF regulated. These were reliable if you had the current required.

The Estes Sonic igniters are not low current. I wouldn't try to light a cluster with them.

 

[RocketryBen]

Get a little fabric glue and dip your Estes igniters in BP. Increases reliability by a large margin.

+1! That works very well! Just watch out not to put too much glue on, that can effect how well it burns.



Thanks,

 

[DuaneW]

Best I've done with the old style Estes igniters in a cluster of 6 D11-Ps and 1 D12-7 using a standard 12v relay / battery close to pad system. I wouldn't try that many using any type of launch system that had a remote battery. You lose too much current over long distances with the gauge wire used by most systems that are set up like that.

 

[davel]

Thanks guys.

 

[Zeus-cat]

Investigate flash pans if you are doing a big cluster of black powder motors.

 

[dpower]

The Estes Sonic igniters are not low current. I wouldn't try to light a cluster with them.

I've used Estes Sonic igniters for BP clusters, and they work great with 12V. A good substitute for Q2G2s, and longer leads too.

 

[dpower]

+1! That works very well! Just watch out not to put too much glue on, that can effect how well it burns.



Thanks,

+2, I've been doing this, and it's a big improvement. Your glue comment is spot-on.

 

[dpower]

MJG now offers BP and AP motor ignitors as well as Firewires for deployment.

Rich, thanks for pointing that out. I've used their FireWires, but the BP starters look great! I fly a number of cluster rockets up to 7 motors, and am running out of Q2G2s.

 

[KevinM]

Get a little fabric glue and dip your Estes igniters in BP. Increases reliability by a large margin.

Why specifically fabric glue? Would other adhesives not work as well?

I've got a stash of Q2-MMX igniters (bridgewire only) and I want to add some "help" so I can use them with BP motors...

 

[T-Rex]

Get a little fabric glue and dip your Estes igniters in BP. Increases reliability by a large margin.

I am curious what you mean by 'fabric glue'? I assume we are not talking Titebond II here...

 

[dhbarr]

Something like:
https://www.joann.com/beacon-adhesives-fabric-tac-permanent-adhesive/9132036.html

 

[T-Rex]

Something like:
https://www.joann.com/beacon-adhesives-fabric-tac-permanent-adhesive/9132036.html

Thank you Sir!

 

[qquake2k]

I would think any flammable cement of a similar viscosity would work. I've heard of using PVC pipe cement. Why is fabric glue better?

 

[dhbarr]

I would think any flammable cement of a similar viscosity would work. I've heard of using PVC pipe cement. Why is fabric glue better?

I certainly would be guessing if I suggested flexibility, just trying to remember what the article recommended as nearly as possible.

 

[rharshberger]

iirc Duco cement has been recommended for adding BP to Estes igniters.

 

[cwbullet]

Which bran of fabric glue? There are many types.

 

[hcmbanjo]

I wrote the article for Sport Rocketry magazine.

The fabric glue is Beacon Fabri-Tac. I use it because it contains acetone, very flammable.
The Fabri-Tac glue reminds me of the old tube type plastic model cement. When you draw the bottle
away there is a long string of adhesive from the model to the bottle tip.

Pout a small amount of the black powder into the BP bottle cap.
Apply a little Fabri-Tac to both sides of the starter igniter.
Roll the glued tip in the black powder.
Form the glued BP into a pointed shape with your fingertips, small enough to fit into the nozzle. Done!

NOTE: I have not used these in a cluster yet. You would still have to test the treated igniter tips with a 12 volt system.
These are not meant to replace the Quest Q2G2 igniters for clusters.
These work very well with the Estes style, 6 volt controllers with single engine ignition.

For me it's easier than adding liquid acetone all the time to a hard, dried up dip kit igniter mix.
You can make them up anytime quickly and easily.

The Fabri-Tac glue is also very good for gluing plastic adapters or boat tails - plastic to kraft body tubes or
nose cone shoulders into nose cones. I wouldn't recommend it for a Mercury Redstone tower, liquid cement
is still the best for that.

I can't upload a picture - the second picture in this blog post shows the glue -
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2016/07/estes-interceptor-build-1250-part-24.html

 

[Bat-mite]

And I'm here to say that Chris's method works. I'm sure it's not the only method; I'm sure there are other glues that work. But my suggestion was based on experience, not intended as an exhaustive report.

BTW, thanks, Chris. My kids get a way higher ignition ratio using your method. :handshake:

 

[dwinings]

you can make them a lot more reliable by dipping them in clear fingernail polish or nitrate dope then 4f black powder.