ATF situation

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viciouspeanut

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Hey everyone,

Hope this is allowed, just trying to get an understanding.

Last time I was involved in MPR / HPR it was in the midst of the ATF, high power lawsuit for motors and igniters. I know there is some resolution, but I cant locate a summary of it. Do we still need the fireproof cabinet to store HPR motors? It seems like ingiters aren't regulated anymore, but Ematches are?
 

Bat-mite

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Court ruled that BP and APCP rocket motors are not BATFE regulated. No need to get a LEUP or specialized storage. Somehow, igniters slipped through the cracks. Some manufacturers have come up with non-regulated starters/initiators (they won't say "igniters"), others are technically regulated.

Those who have spoken to BATFE agents at launches have come away with the feeling that the federal government has bigger fish to fry than amateur rocketeers, and that the use of BP and non-regulated igniters is sort of "overlooked," as long as they are being used safely and discreetly. In other words, if you have a pound of BP in your garage and don't use it to make cherry bombs or kill your neighbor's cat, they won't be looking for you. As far as I know, the BATFE has never arrested anyone for having igniters at a launch, although they are still technically regulated items.
 

Steve Shannon

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Court ruled that BP and APCP rocket motors are not BATFE regulated. No need to get a LEUP or specialized storage. Somehow, igniters slipped through the cracks. Some manufacturers have come up with non-regulated starters/initiators (they won't say "igniters"), others are technically regulated.

Those who have spoken to BATFE agents at launches have come away with the feeling that the federal government has bigger fish to fry than amateur rocketeers, and that the use of BP and non-regulated igniters is sort of "overlooked," as long as they are being used safely and discreetly. In other words, if you have a pound of BP in your garage and don't use it to make cherry bombs or kill your neighbor's cat, they won't be looking for you. As far as I know, the BATFE has never arrested anyone for having igniters at a launch, although they are still technically regulated items.
The lawsuit had nothing to do with BP in rocket motors or otherwise, but I agree, as long as you're not doing something stupid with it the chances of getting in trouble are slim. The only thing that the lawsuit did was to require ATF to exclude ammonium perchlorate composite propellant from the explosive list which is found here:
https://www.atf.gov/file/97716/download

Here's a link to the legal documents:
https://www.nar.org/pdf/PlaintiffsSecondAmendedComplaint.pdf
 
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viciouspeanut

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Perfect, thank you for the information! Igniters are still murky I see, but luckily Quickburst attends the same launches I plan on going to (and used to go to) so maybe he can clear that up!
 

Peartree

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The lawsuit had nothing to do with BP in rocket motors or otherwise, but I agree, as long as you're not doing something stupid with it the chances of getting in trouble are slim. The only thing that the lawsuit did was to require ATF to exclude ammonium perchlorate composite propellant from the explosive list which is found here:
https://www.atf.gov/file/97716/download

Here's a link to the legal documents:
https://www.nar.org/pdf/PlaintiffsSecondAmendedComplaint.pdf
I could be wrong, but when the previous poster mentioned BP, I was assuming that they meant loose BP used for deployment charges, and not BP motors. Still, you're exactly right that even loose BP wasn't a part of the lawsuit but it is one of the things that the ATF tracked as a part of your LEUP and had to be stored in your magazine.
 

Bat-mite

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I was mixing apples and oranges. I was being inclusive of BP motors since they were never regulated in the first place. So Estes, Quest, etc. do not need to be stored in an explosives box. What i was trying to say was that there is no commercially available rocket motor that is currently regulated.
 

Donaldsrockets

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If there were BP motors with more than 62.5 grams of propellant, they would be regulated since BP is on the explosives list. Heck, the Estes F15 motors are only 2.5 grams under that.
 
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