At what point do I need a tracker?

[Joey Draney]

I’m flying a 3inch punisher in a few days on an i600 and I’ve got quite a few other electronics in there and it would be a pain to get the tracker in so I was wondering if it is even needed.
Open rocket says it will go about 4500ft based on where my launch is and what not. I think I would be fine but haven’t had too much experience with it.

 

[OzHybrid]

Depends on where you're launching. If there's 6ft high crops in the field, you can be right on it and not find it. The harvester will find it though.....I'm using a Tile Pro as a simple solution. Not as good as a full telemetry and GPS, but I can put it on my keys to find them when I'm not flying. Apple airtags are similar. You can turn them on to make a noise when you're close-ish. Go from there to whatever suits your level of problem for the site.
At 4500ft it shouldn't drift too far if you're using dual deploy or have your chute reefed in if it's a windy day.
Norm

 

[KenECoyote]

Consider the possibility that something goes wrong and your main chute deploys at apogee... will you still be able to find it without tracking?

 

[stealth6]

The short answer is "BEFORE you realize you need one".
Of course it begs the question on whether or not you "need" any rocketry stuff, but let's not get all caught up in that.

It comes down to what's important to you. If it's important for you to find your rocket quickly, with minimal time and hassle, then get a tracker soon, especially if you are flying to 4500'. The chances are pretty good that it's going to come down someplace you aren't planning for, and having a tracker could save you lots of time/stress/effort. The word "could" is important here because even with a tracker on board, things don't always work out perfectly.

But trackers are also time/money/effort in themselves, AND something else that can go wrong. You said yourself that getting it in your rocket would be "a pain" so maybe you don't want that particular hassle. Balance out which "pain" (the time/money/effort" involved with using one vs. the potential time/money/effort searching for your lost rocket) and decide which is more acceptable.

For me, using trackers is one of the fun and interesting parts of flying. I like using them, and enjoy it just like I do designing and building, building motors, stuffing parachutes, prepping for launch, etc. Pressing the launch button and watching the rocket go up is just one small part of the whole experience. Using trackers is one added "cool thing" to learn and spend my time doing, and it definitely beats searching for a lost rocket without one.

All that said, there are lots of times when I just want a "whoosh pop" experience......simple design, small motor, single/motor deploy, and most importantly low altitude where I can easily see the whole event. Then just walk a couple hundred feet max, in a wide open area, pick up my rocket and do it again. No need, or desire, to have any sort of tracking then.

But if I'm launching bigger motors, with other more complex elements (like dual deploy, altimeters, etc.), and I'm flying pretty much anything over say 1500', I might not "need" a tracker, but I probably want one.

s6

 

[waltr]

s6 said it well.

I run a GPS tracker (Eggfinder) in any of my larger rockets that exceed 1200 feet.
Many times I can see the whole flight and where it landed. However, I have had a few flight to only 2000' were I lost sight of it. Without the tracker I would not have known where to even start looking.
Also have had flights where I could see about where it came down but due to crops/grass could not see the rocket until less than 20 feet away. Tracking took me directly to the rocket otherwise I would have searched for a long time.

During the later summer/Autumn when the corn is high I use GPS in larger rockets and a small RF beacon in smaller rockets. Otherewise it can be very hard to find a rocket in the corn. Other crops can hid rockets.

 

[afadeev]

I’m flying a 3inch punisher in a few days on an i600 and I’ve got quite a few other electronics in there and it would be a pain to get the tracker in so I was wondering if it is even needed.
Open rocket says it will go about 4500ft based on where my launch is and what not. I think I would be fine but haven’t had too much experience with it.

4500 ft is high enough to loose visual sight of a 3" rocket, even on a clear blue sky day. Add some clouds, or a few distractions during launch, and you are guaranteed to loose sight.
Maybe you will see the apogee event, maybe not. Maybe you see it on the way down (how high does DD fire the second charge?), maybe not.

How important is it for you to get the rocket back?
Seriously.
Some folks like building and launching more than tracking and finding the airframe to launch it again.
Others, like designing and planning ahead for a perfect launch sequence, including getting the rocket back with minimal excitement.
Yet others, enjoy the electronics part of the equation as much as, if not more than, actual launching.

Where your interests currently lie in this hobby will drive your decision.
If you prioritize flying over all else, and you are generally OK with not seeing the rocket ever again, then just add a beeper.
That will help you locating it in tall grass if you know the generation area of search. But not if main opens at apogee:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/rocket-finder-beepers.155799/
HTH,
a

 

[JoePfeiffer]

My own threshold is 3000'. Anything going that high gets a tracker. And then, just for practice, anything with a mount for the tracker gets it on every launch, even on a smaller motor.

I normally build a mount into the nose cone

 

[Sooner Boomer]

I use a tracker for anything that flies (or sims) to over 2000 feet. My eyes aren't as good as they once were. Our club bought several Featherweight transmitters and a base station. We've got holders made from PVC pipe with an eyebolt at one end, and a snap ring at the other. The transmitter circuit board is mounted to a small 3D printed sled which fits inside the pipe. I've also got a series of nosecones with the PVC pipe already glued in. If the rocket's not large enough for the transmitter/holder, I use a *really* long crepe paper ribbon, 10-12'.

 

[teepot]

My question would be, how large is your field? What's around it? I haven't needed one yet. We fly off a dry lake. It's a couple of miles wide and more long. I put a 3" six foot tall rocket on an I 500 to 4500'. Saw it the whole way. It was a cloudless bright blue sky and no wind. My DD altimeter was set for 500'. The rocket came down about half to three quarters of a mile away. It is very hard to lose a rocket if it comes down on the lake bed. If it gets off it you need a tracker. It can be calm on the ground and not higher up. The rocket weighs 69 ounces empty and it came down on a 10" drouge. If tour field is that big and flat with short grass you might need one. On the other hand better safe than sorry. I have an Eggfinder that I'm going to use on an MD. That is when it gets finished.

 

[Donnager]

I'd fly the field. Ours is about a mile wide and 3/4 mile N-S, with a little L shape for the sod area.

At our field, unless winds are very unusual, I put a tracker in anything that will convincingly break 3000'. I've had a couple deploy the main at apogee, and lost one in an area that was accessible (corn fields).

I used to use Communication Specialists stuff, and still have some. I have changed over to the LL electronics bird style trackers.

 

[Banzai88]

Most of us lose visual sight of a 3" rocket above 3000 feet and a 4" rocket above 4000 feet.

My main field is 5 square miles of open crop land. If I can fly with a tracker, I fly with a tracker. Pop a chute at 4-5K and do 'the long walk' once or twice having to vector around numerous irrigation ditches and lose visual reference of where you're supposed to be going, or get into the trees (even though they're 2 miles from the launch pad) and you'll be glad you put that tracker in.

And then I've experienced rolling hills of 2 feet or less, or 6 inches of crops completely eat/disappear 8 inch diameter rockets, laundry and all.......so, I follow the three laws of rocketry trackers:

1. If you think you need one, you need one.
2. If you can fly one, but don't, you'll NEED one.
3. If you fly with a tracker, your rockets will forever land in sight and an easy walk away!

 

[Donnager]

Most of us lose visual sight of a 3" rocket above 3000 feet and a 4" rocket above 4000 feet.

My main field is 5 square miles of open crop land. If I can fly with a tracker, I fly with a tracker. Pop a chute at 4-5K and do 'the long walk' once or twice having to vector around numerous irrigation ditches and lose visual reference of where you're supposed to be going, or get into the trees (even though they're 2 miles from the launch pad) and you'll be glad you put that tracker in.

And then I've experienced rolling hills of 2 feet or less, or 6 inches of crops completely eat/disappear 8 inch diameter rockets, laundry and all.......so, I follow the three laws of rocketry trackers:

1. If you think you need one, you need one.
2. If you can fly one, but don't, you'll NEED one.
3. If you fly with a tracker, your rockets will forever land in sight and an easy walk away!

Yeah, I've found that when I install trackers, there seems to be some karmic disruption to make them unnecessary at times. I've had more than one land within 200 yards of the pad, when I was planning for more like 2000 yards.

 

[0011001100]

3. If you fly with a tracker, your rockets will forever land in sight and an easy walk away!

First time I flew a tracker it landed 50ft from the pad...



As for tracking, I've personally flown to 6400ft with a 3" bird and kept an eye on it. But I'm young and used reflective paint on the nosecone that glimmered on the way down. From what I have watched, you want a tracker when the rocket goes above about 1000x times its diameter (aka 3k for a 3" rkt, 4k for a 4" rkt). Now this isn't a perfect idea but its the one I'm doing going forward and one that is a good starting point. As others have said, it all depends on your field.

 

[David Schwantz]

Our club requires one at anything over 3000'.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

Our club requires one at anything over 3000'.

Does your club provide one, or is it up to the individual flyer?

 

[David Schwantz]

Kind of both. We have them available for rent. It's only a couple bucks unless it is lost. And one can always use his own.

 

[Conway Stevens]

Should EASILY be able to fit 3 batteries, 2 altimeters and a GPS unit in a 3 inch HED av bay if it's planned out right. I do it all the time no issues.

I fly trackers in everything. I find it keeps me in practice, things happen. My eye sight has gotten less as I've gotten older. And I like to find my stuff.

 

[Handeman]

As others have said, it kind of depends on how young your eyes are and where you are flying. On our east coast field, you could watch it land on the field almost 3000 ft. away, or it could drop behind a hill and tree line less then 1200 ft away. If it's behind that hill and tree line and about 3000 ft. away, you might find it, but probably not.

What I have found that trackers are the most useful for, is greatly reducing the recovery time. You might have to wade through tall grass, brush, bogs, crops, or just open fields, etc. for hours to find a rocket without a tracker. With the tracker, you can walk right to it and fly again in less than an hour.

 

[Jmhepworth]

Only use a tracker in rockets you want to find.

 

[Jim Hinton]

A radio tracker doesn't need to be in the avbay. Inside a nomex sleeve they can ride fine next to a chute. I usually put mine in the aft airframe with the drogue so it comes out early to facilitate tracking.

Jim

 

[David Schwantz]

I'll strap mine to the shock cord.

 

[Seatechnerd83]

If you have a 3d printer you can 3d model AV Bay, I jammed 2 altimeters, a tracker, 1800mah of battery, and a lab rat pull pin switch in a 54mm AV bay, I can imagine you'd be able to fit some sort of tracker in a 3in AV Bay.

 

[Titan II]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/shockcord-mounted-gps-solution.174141/#post-2307016

 

[David Schwantz]

I use silicone tape. Buy it a Menards in the electrical dept. Works great. Several wraps around unit and antenna in a couple spots and you are good to go.

 

[ac2fv]

How much would you pay to get your rocket back if you lost it? Your investment of the rocket, time, paint and electronics will add up to much more than a tracker would cost. My trackers fly in the nosecone. If the wind is up, the crops are high, or I've got an uneasy feeling about the situation, I fly a tracker. I've always said, "It's not too hard to make 'em go up, the problem is getting them back". GL.

 

[Handeman]

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/shockcord-mounted-gps-solution.174141/#post-2307016

I've been building my nose cones with a tube to accept my MissleWorks T3 tracker. It's mounted on a piece of 4mm plywood that can slip inside a 38mm MMT, or the thick wall mailing tube I attach to shock cords. The receiver and battery is in box I had along with a DPDT switch. When the receiver is turned off, the external connector can be use to charge the battery.

The tube has end caps that are taped on and then electrical tape is used to tape the tube to the shock cord. I use 5 - 6 wraps at the top and the bottom of the tube. I only used 3 wraps the fist time and it came back with the tape tore on one end and almost tore through on the other. Which surprised me because electrical tape stretches before it breaks. I also painted it bright orange in case it ever did break loose. I figured it would be easier to find.

 

[ac2fv]

Great nose cone bay kits from Mac Performance...

https://macperformancerocketry.com/products/pinnacle-nosecone-bay-kits

 

[Banzai88]

Great nose cone bay kits from Mac Performance...

https://macperformancerocketry.com/products/pinnacle-nosecone-bay-kits

These rock, I've done about a dozen of them, and they never disappoint

 

[KenECoyote]

Consider the possibility that something goes wrong and your main chute deploys at apogee... will you still be able to find it without tracking?

Here's an actual example of mine from last year of what I noted above.

A tracker like this is imo invaluable if you launch anywhere where you can lose sight of the rocket.

Last year I was using a TRS (older Eggtimer altimeter that has GPS tracking and I also linked it to a handheld Eggfinder Rx unit) and my 4" Patriot on an I600 had the main deploy at ~2700' (still not sure why, but have a few leads).

It went far away behind a grove of trees (in the right background of the above pic) and landed in some different section of the farm.

Hours of searching was fruitless. I had GPS coordinates on my rx, but no phone service out in the far fields and it was getting dark, so I left.

When I got home, I plugged the coordinates in and got a spot right away.

The next morning I went to that spot and it was right there! It was smack dab in the middle of a field and laid low, so it was just far enough from every side path for it to not be visible.



That saved me a big rocket, plus casing and dual altimeters!

This year I know better to get a GPS map of the area beforehand or get to an area with phone reception.

 

[Banzai88]

Here's an actual example of mine from last year of what I noted above.

A tracker like this is imo invaluable if you launch anywhere where you can lose sight of the rocket.

Last year I was using a TRS (older Eggtimer altimeter that has GPS tracking and I also linked it to a handheld Eggfinder Rx unit) and my 4" Patriot on an I600 had the main deploy at ~2700' (still not sure why, but have a few leads).
View attachment 577391
It went far away behind a grove of trees (in the right background of the above pic) and landed in some different section of the farm.

Hours of searching was fruitless. I had GPS coordinates on my rx, but no phone service out in the far fields and it was getting dark, so I left.
View attachment 577392
When I got home, I plugged the coordinates in and got a spot right away.
View attachment 577393
The next morning I went to that spot and it was right there! It was smack dab in the middle of a field and laid low, so it was just far enough from every side path for it to not be visible.
View attachment 577394
View attachment 577395
View attachment 577396
That saved me a big rocket, plus casing and dual altimeters!

This year I know better to get a GPS map of the area beforehand or get to an area with phone reception.

Classic pictures of even small furrows and short crops 'disappearing' even moderately large rockets!

The lack of cell service at some fields is what led me to purchasing a GPS product (Missile Works RTX) that had native 'walk to' capabilities on the hand held RX.