AT single use M1350 legal for level 3 attempt?

[RayGNJ]

Looking to try for my level 3 in the near future but the cost of buying a case and reload is a bit steep.

I am looking to cut the cost (not in construction or recovery) as I am on a limited budget.

My question is, is the SU motor legal for a level 3 attempt or do I have to buy the case and reload.

If I succeed then I would maybe get the case. If not maybe I could borrow a case.

 

[cwbullet]

Yes. It is sufficient for level 3.

 

[crossfire]

Yes for sure its a M L-3 motor. I wish it was around when I did my L-3 flight.

 

[bob jablonski]

If I am not mistaken one was used for a successful L3 at LDRS on Friday.

 

[pyrobob]

Yes, they have been successfully used for L3 certification on at least two occasions I'm aware. Numerous successful flights elsewhere.

 

[pyrobob]

Here's video of one of the L3 certification flights:

https://www.facebook.com/buyrocketmotors/posts/1564115623849120

 

[Salvage-1]

Yup, I just got my L3 with an M1350 DMS... also got it from ^

Thankies PyroBob, an M motor at my door 4 days after I ordered it... now THAT is service!

 

[JoeG]

I would think the single use motors would be very popular for an L3 cert flight.

Interesting that the NAR certification procedures specifically call out that single use or reload motors may be used for L1 and L2 but if using a reload it must be assembled in front of the certifying team by the candidate. In the L3 paperwork I can't find any reference to this. Possibly because when they were written there were no single use M motors? I don't find a reference to the candidate assembling the motor either. Maybe I just missed it. I would assume the same rules would apply for L3 as 1 and 2.

 

[Onebadhawk]

You're more then welcome to borrow my Hardware Ray.....

Teddy

 

[pyrobob]

Yup, I just got my L3 with an M1350 DMS... also got it from ^

Thankies PyroBob, an M motor at my door 4 days after I ordered it... now THAT is service!

Oh, make that three L3 cert flights I'm aware of! Too cool! Do you have a build thread anywhere or any details of the flight? Congratulations!

 

[ksaves2]

I would think the single use motors would be very popular for an L3 cert flight.

Interesting that the NAR certification procedures specifically call out that single use or reload motors may be used for L1 and L2 but if using a reload it must be assembled in front of the certifying team by the candidate. In the L3 paperwork I can't find any reference to this. Possibly because when they were written there were no single use M motors? I don't find a reference to the candidate assembling the motor either. Maybe I just missed it. I would assume the same rules would apply for L3 as 1 and 2.

Don't give them any ideas Joe. It's a stupid "weenie" rule since the DMS motor has a forward closure that has to be epoxied in place at a minimum of 24 hours in advance. For the smaller motors, I stare at the instructions and
mark them off like a checklist every time and I've been doing this for 10 years. Making the person assemble the motor in front of somebody is stupid and doesn't prove a thing except they can read instructions! :eyeroll:
If they are getting to the L3 level I would presume they can assemble a motor by then.
Actually the M 1350 is pretty easy to make. As with any motor make sure there are no parts left over except the plastic caps (if any). Kurt

 

[ksaves2]

You're more then welcome to borrow my Hardware Ray.....

Teddy

That's kind of you Teddy to help the guy out although for the cost of the DMS motor at about $339.00 he doesn't have to risk trashing your hardware. I'd feel bad about wrecking someone's hardware:cry: and would of course replace it.
With SU that risk of ultimately having to buy replacement hardware prematurely is negated.:wink: Ray can decide later if he wants to invest in a larger case.
Kurt

 

[RocketDude77]

Yup, got my L3 with the 'Cow at LDRS on the DMS M1350W. The only minor issue is the 16 or so hours for the epoxy to set, so you have to plan around that (also keep it perfectly upright for about 2 hours for the epoxy to firm-up).

Keep in mind that although the M1350W is "Single Use" it still requires assembly, very similar to any other M-reload. You have to install the grains, liner, o-rings, forward bulkhead, and epoxy the bulkhead. There was apparently some completely misguided grousing at LDRS that the M1350W was somehow a "cheat" and "too easy" and thus should not be used for L3 certifications.

If anything, the M1350W is a bit of a PITA since it requires very careful handling after assembly, and the wait time is a hassle for the L3 process (luckily, I did mine on the Thursday of LDRS, or my L3 would not have happened!).


In any case, it's cool, and makes a great memento of your L3!

 

[pyrobob]

Wow, make that 4!

 

[BayouRat]

Great Motor, I watched one fly at NSL and Southern Thunder. Both L3 cert flights. No hardware to buy. No assembly to mess up.

I recommend buying from Chris's Rocket Supply. You can save the HAZMAT fee if you attend a launch he is vending at.

https://csrocketry.com

 

[RayGNJ]

Thanks guys for the info, At least that's one corner covered.

Thanks for the offer Teddy, but like Kurt says. The last thing I
need to worry about is trashing you hardware.
It would be bad enough to have failed and then still have the
issue to replace your hardware if it were damaged.

 

[Onebadhawk]

Thanks guys for the info, At least that's one corner covered.

Thanks for the offer Teddy, but like Kurt says. The last thing I
need to worry about is trashing you hardware.
It would be bad enough to have failed and then still have the
issue to replace your hardware if it were damaged.

I understand Ray,,,
Good man...
You're always welcome anywhoosie...

Teddy

 

[AlnessW]

Yup, I just got my L3 with an M1350 DMS... also got it from ^

Thankies PyroBob, an M motor at my door 4 days after I ordered it... now THAT is service!

...And what a nice flight that was!!

Don't give them any ideas Joe. It's a stupid "weenie" rule since the DMS motor has a forward closure that has to be epoxied in place at a minimum of 24 hours in advance. For the smaller motors, I stare at the instructions and
mark them off like a checklist every time and I've been doing this for 10 years. Making the person assemble the motor in front of somebody is stupid and doesn't prove a thing except they can read instructions! :eyeroll:
If they are getting to the L3 level I would presume they can assemble a motor by then.
Actually the M 1350 is pretty easy to make. As with any motor make sure there are no parts left over except the plastic caps (if any). Kurt

NAR has lots of "weenie rules" for L3 certs - just saying - such as arbitrarily requiring 3 switches per altimeter?

 

[Salvage-1]

Thanks guys for the info, At least that's one corner covered.

Thanks for the offer Teddy, but like Kurt says. The last thing I
need to worry about is trashing you hardware.
It would be bad enough to have failed and then still have the
issue to replace your hardware if it were damaged.

.... and that is EXACTLY why i went with the DMS.

I had a CTi 6grain 75mm case, and offers from others that I could borrow theirs, but, for this flight, I didn't want to risk anything.

AFTER this flight, I realize that risking the hardware should have been the least of my concerns.
I had flown multiple rockets with dual altimeters, etc, and with the Tripoli rules, it was "build bigger, build better, get it all checked, burn an M, recover"
It sure came with quite a lot of stress as well.

I highly recommend starting the L3 build 3 weeks before the launch (after 11 months of planning). You don't have much time to worry between finishing and launching.

Now, after building and launching, I still have my hardware, I still have offers of cases that I can borrow, but I will buy another M1350DMS in a heartbeat. That is one helluva motor and burns like the old Aerotech Whites used to.

Even if it IS only a 1% M.

This is called a "Gateway M"

 

[ksaves2]

...And what a nice flight that was!!


NAR has lots of "weenie rules" for L3 certs - just saying - such as arbitrarily requiring 3 switches per altimeter?

I think they dropped the "three switch rule". I was ranting about that for a long time. Tripoli dropped it first but some taps were insistent on it for awhile. Use good altimeters, don't screw up on battery polarity and
all will be fine. Shunts are another stupid matter too. If one can prove that the shunt circuit works without popping the ematch then I say O.K. Problem is if one tries "testing" a shunt, could risk dorking their altimeter electronics.
Hardly a nice thing to do. If one "can't" test the shunt, how can they be certain it will work if needed? I will concede that a shunt type circuit might be essential for a multi-stager to prevent a mishap but I am not rich enough
to be dorking altimeters right and left. Am also not considering a two stager rocket so I'm not going to have to go there. Kurt