AT Shipping S/U G Motors

[loopy]

Originally posted by garoq
A couple of points to consider:

- Street prices will usually be below suggested retail.
- The RMS was developed specifically to make the cost of propulsion more affordable. We expect that the sales of EFG RMS reload kits will increase as a result of the higher SU prices.Gary

--------------------------------------------------------
Gary Rosenfield
President, RCS Rocket Motor Components, Inc.

Very well said (especially mentioning "street prices", since AP really is an addiction! ), and I believe these are what many posters in this thread keep forgetting. I know it threw me for a while until I looked at the price list on your website, and I remembered that those prices are the "suggested retail", and that the actual prices may vary.

Anyway - I don't think anyone believes you were trying to pull a fast one, Gary, I think this is just another vent of the frustration level with this hobby right now. Everyone is so concerned with regulation and what not, this just wasn't the news they wanted to hear, but I think most of us understand, and meant no ill will toward you or RCS/AT personally, just at the situation.

On the same token, buying a higher priced SU motor with a stronger case design that performs properly and doesn't CATO is certainly less expensive than rebuilding after an explosive CATO. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to spending many paychecks on your products!

Loopy

 

[Zonker]

This has been a very interesting thread. Since I live in western Canada, AP motors have been pretty much impossible to get until recently. Even still, I have to order them from across the country. Add to that the fact that the Canadian dollar is worth less that the US dollar, and motors start to get a little costly. The last time around, the total landed cost of a pack of F20s was $32 (note: this was by far the cheapest of the suppliers). Some of you might think I'm crazy to pay that much. To me, the simple fact is that there are no other options. It's still cheaper that clustering a bunch of BP motors (cheapest price here is $10.50 for a pack of Ds). As Gary said, if it really was cheap and easy to produce AP motors, there would be a long list of manufacturers. If the margins aren't sufficient, it just isn't worth it anymore. I can't speak for the situation south of the border, but in my experience, rocketry is not one of the more popular hobbies. Hobby stores make way more money on other items (R/C, for example) than rocketry. In many cases, I can't even find a good selection of Estes motors. To make matters worse, recent changes in city bylaws make it very difficult to find a suitable launch site. When I add all of these factors, launching a rocket becomes sort of a "special event" for me. It certainly isn't something I can do whenever I get the urge. I guess the bottom line is that if you really like doing something, the price becomes secondary. Don't get me wrong...I don't like price increases, but for the time being, it's still worthwhile in my opinion.

Zonker

 

[shockwaveriderz]

wow, thanks Gary for taking the time to post your comments.....

I'll just say if you don't want to spend $25 on the new G80, then you can get EM G20/G35/G37 SU for $15 per....

Or you can do reloadable G from AT/CTI/Loki,etc

or you can do G hybrids from Sky Ripper soon..


the point is there is variety within the marketplace


and the new AT single use motor case is a great piece of engineering....

 

[artu]

Originally posted by Ray Dunakin
I've been waiting for more G40's and G80's, but twenty-five bucks for a G motor is insane, especially if they have less total impulse than they used to have. Heck, I can get an H reload for a lot less than that!

I just wish they'd make an H reload that was slower burning, like an H40 or H50, with the White Lightning propellent.Even an H80 or H90 would be good. The faster H128's and H180's make it hard to get any in-flight photos while the motor is still burning.

Ray, try $15 G35s, $28 H50 and Even I-69s priced in the 30s in 29mm from Bob Ellis.

I've been flying all these and more all year and having a blast.

"I always like to have a blast, before I take off"

 

[Ray Dunakin]

Originally posted by artu
Ray, try $15 G35s, $28 H50 and Even I-69s priced in the 30s in 29mm from Bob Ellis.

Unfortunately the Ellis motors are so hard to light that they are useless for staging, clusters, or multi-vehicle launches where rapid and reliable ignition is a must. Most of my launches fall into one or more of those categories.

 

[Art Upton]

Originally posted by Ray Dunakin
Unfortunately the Ellis motors are so hard to light that they are useless for staging, clusters, or multi-vehicle launches

Actually, the Thor's Hammer Propellent is easy to light with a quickburst twiggy. But it takes time for the hammer to come up to pressure.

In a LOC Starburst two engine cluster, we did a "Hillbilly Air Start" with two F20s on twiggys.

Both ignitors started the propellent and delay grains going at once, but as you know the Hammer takes a while to come up to pressure.

anyway, the first one comes to life, and starts the star burst upwards just fine on one motor. at about 1 second into the burn the second one comes to life as an air start.

it was really spectacular. I got a grouund based video of it.

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by garoq


They are still an excellent value compared to the competition.

Let's see that chart. I want to see what the competition is for that line.

Jerry

Enerjet died in about 1972.

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by DynaSoar
Ellis is dealer direct. Cut out a middle man and cut out a layer of fat.

It's not fat.

It is redistribution to small dealers nationwide. Local motion.

Jerry

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by n3tjm
Just when I buy a set of 38's and 54's, Aerotech raises their already high prices again . Tell you this much, I am NOT flying Redline and Blue Thunder anymore. I am sure whatever the new chemical Aerotech is using does not cost that much!
Now I am beginning to think about reselling my Aerotech 38 and 54 stuff, and sticking with LOKI and AMW.

G75J-M 14.95
H128W-M 14.95
H238T-M 16.50
H165R-M 16.50

I600R-M 53.95
J350W-M 47.95
J420R-M 53.95

Oh.. and 53.95 is to much for the I600. You won't see one of those in my rockets

When U.S. Rockets motors were decertified by Tripoli in 1997 or 1998 the prices of SU motors were as follows:

120G $16
160G $18
240H $20
320H $30
640I $60
1200J $120

R&R-tm (not ever certified reloads - samples were "lost" by Tripoli) were:
120G $7.00
180H $10.50
240H $14.00
320H $21.00
720J $42.00
960J $63.00
1200J $84.00

Perhaps you can apply your inflation calculator to that. Those prices INCLUDE full distributor margins of 40 and 25.

Jerry

 

[cjl]

I think that Aerotech is justified in the price increase, but I'm still glad I picked up some RMS casings recently. I just wish they would release a G80 equivalent BT reloat for the 29 40-120 case.

 

[n3tjm]

The RMS 29/40-120 was not designed to take a G80 size load. Good thing there is the 29/120 motor, wich offers the G79. It's White Lightning too, which is cheaper than their Blue Thunder motors.

 

[rstaff3]

Originally posted by n3tjm
The RMS 29/40-120 was not designed to take a G80 size load. Good thing there is the 29/120 motor, wich offers the G79. It's White Lightning too, which is cheaper than their Blue Thunder motors.

And shortly the redline G also