AT Arcas Lugs or Guides?

[sebaney]

Hey all,

I’m about to start a build of the Aerotech Arcas, and I’m trying to decide if I should use the 1/4” lugs, or the conformal rail guides.

I have the Mantis pad, but I also have access to monthly club launches where there are 1010 rails available.

I’m new to mid power, so curious as to pros and cons of each.

Thanks much!

 

[tfish]

put both on..

Tony

 

[rharshberger]

put both on..

Tony

That is definitely a good option if flying by yourself as the Mantis supports are rod (stock pad), but flying with a club the railbuttons/conformal guides are better.

 

[Neutronium95]

Anything I build with a 29mm motor mount or bigger gets launched off of a rail or tower. I'm not that familiar with the design of the Mantis pad, have you looked into seeing if you could mount a rail to it?

 

[sebaney]

Anything I build with a 29mm motor mount or bigger gets launched off of a rail or tower. I'm not that familiar with the design of the Mantis pad, have you looked into seeing if you could mount a rail to it?

From what I have seen, the mantis is not stable enough on its own to support a rail.

 

[tfish]

Anything I build with a 29mm motor mount or bigger gets launched off of a rail or tower. I'm not that familiar with the design of the Mantis pad, have you looked into seeing if you could mount a rail to it?

The Mantis launch pad is made by Aerotech..as is the Arcas. It's very capable of launching...this size and class of rockets.

Tony

 

[rocketryfanatic]

seriously?? I wouldn't expect any rocket not to fly without rail buttons, what is it 1990?

 

[DeltaVee]

Hey all,

I’m about to start a build of the Aerotech Arcas, and I’m trying to decide if I should use the 1/4” lugs, or the conformal rail guides.

I have the Mantis pad, but I also have access to monthly club launches where there are 1010 rails available.

I’m new to mid power, so curious as to pros and cons of each.

Thanks much!

My preference are the rail guides. To solve the "lone launch" issue, I purchased a Rockwell jawstand and a 1010 rail. I originally had lunch lugs on mine, but on an occasion of rod whip that landed my arcas in a pine tree, I changed to rail guides. Not regretting the decision. I'd say if you're going to be building a lot of larger sized rockets along the same lines as the arcas, invest in a rail launcher for your own use.

 

[rsbhunter]

My preference are the rail guides. To solve the "lone launch" issue, I purchased a Rockwell jawstand and a 1010 rail. I originally had lunch lugs on mine, but on an occasion of rod whip that landed my arcas and a pine tree, I changed to rail guides. Not regretting the decision. I'd say if you're going to be building a lot of larger sized rockets along the same lines as the arcas, invest in a rail launcher for your own use.

I agree 100%. I would base this decision on your future plans....if you're looking at bigger size rockets, definitely go with a 1010 rod set up.....there are some reasonably priced launch pads you can build. Already owning a Mantis, it would be a great option .... but it depends if you have the launch area that will handle big rockets....rsbhunter

 

[sebaney]

I agree 100%. I would base this decision on your future plans....if you're looking at bigger size rockets, definitely go with a 1010 rod set up.....there are some reasonably priced launch pads you can build. Already owning a Mantis, it would be a great option .... but it depends if you have the launch area that will handle big rockets....rsbhunter

Yeah, that’s the concern. It seems like rail guides are the way to go, but I’m not sure what my options are as far as launch space, apart from the arrangements the club has made.

 

[rsbhunter]

If you stay in the G class of motors, maybe light H, a good size field will handle bigger rockets at "reasonable" apogees...ie. 1000' area. Alot depends on chute deployment. I am building a Super DX-3 38mm for my level 1 cert in January....I am considering launching on the biggest G motor that is still under 80ns to test it...but I use a JLCR set at 400' with a BIG chute. If I can get to a safe altitude after the build weight , I will try it...if not, level 1 cert will be my test flight...if you decide to go 1010 rail, go to govets site...I have ordered a 8' and a 6' piece. Price is very reasonable, and believe it or not, when I ordered , FREE FREIGHT!!!! rsbhunter

 

[sebaney]

If you stay in the G class of motors, maybe light H, a good size field will handle bigger rockets at "reasonable" apogees...ie. 1000' area. Alot depends on chute deployment. I am building a Super DX-3 38mm for my level 1 cert in January....I am considering launching on the biggest G motor that is still under 80ns to test it...but I use a JLCR set at 400' with a BIG chute. If I can get to a safe altitude after the build weight , I will try it...if not, level 1 cert will be my test flight...if you decide to go 1010 rail, go to govets site...I have ordered a 8' and a 6' piece. Price is very reasonable, and believe it or not, when I ordered , FREE FREIGHT!!!! rsbhunter

Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check it out.

 

[Initiator001]

I built and flew the AeroTech prototypes for the HV Arcas kit. It flew fine off of the Mantis pad using motors up to 'G'.

My personal HV Arcas kit has flown off of 1/4" diameter launch rods without issue.

 

[jgarbus]

My kiddo just built the Arcas and we went with the rod. Our low power club pad set up is 12 rods / 1 rail so it mad more sense to go rod.

 

[Back_at_it]

This decision comes down to a couple of things for me. Since the rocket is relatively light at 23 or so oz. you could go either way and it would work just fine.

- Most 1/4" rods are 5 or 6 ft in length. Will the motors you plan to use be able to get the rocket up to a safe speed in the length of rod available. If not then use a bigger motor or put buttons on it for a rail as they are typically 8ft.

- What motors do you plan to use. If you plan to fly on an H motor then a rail is the way to go. I've never had issues flying G motors off a 1/4? rod.

Why not do both?

 

[sebaney]

This decision comes down to a couple of things for me. Since the rocket is relatively light at 23 or so oz. you could go either way and it would work just fine.

- Most 1/4" rods are 5 or 6 ft in length. Will the motors you plan to use be able to get the rocket up to a safe speed in the length of rod available. If not then use a bigger motor or put buttons on it for a rail as they are typically 8ft.

- What motors do you plan to use. If you plan to fly on an H motor then a rail is the way to go. I've never had issues flying G motors off a 1/4? rod.

Why not do both?

I think I’ll most likely stick to mid power on my AT kits, as I will eventually plan on certifying HPR, and will most likely build a dedicated high power kit for that.

 

[loopy]

With the bigger stuff, it's safer to go with rail buttons. Much less chance of whip. At our last launch, there was a Nike Smoke on a G motor that went off at a 45* angle because of rod whip. It wasn't a windy day. My bigger mid power birds and all my HPR birds get rail buttons nowadays.

 

[ebruce1361]

Took me a while to find it, but here's a thread of a build featuring an experimental rail button adapter setup that used existing lugs. So one would have the flexibility of both without having the tacky look of both side-by-side.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/old-rocket-convert-to-rail-buttons.155156/

 

[terryg]

Our club requires rails for anything "F" and above. Converting Aerotech rockets to rail buttons is trivial, drill a hole and screw it in. Works great.

 

[dpower]

I built my most recent Initiator with both lugs & guides. Bigger motors I'll use the guides at our HPR field, small motors at our LPR field I'll use the lugs. Though I haven't built the Arcas, I built the similar sized Astrobee-D with guides only. I really like the guides that are now included with AT kits.