Are you smarter than a middle-schooler?

Discussion in 'Contests' started by troj, Sep 1, 2010.

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  1. Sep 1, 2010 #1

    troj

    troj

    troj

    Wielder Of the Skillet Of Harsh Discipline, Potent Staff Member

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    Are you smarter than a High School Kid? A 7th or 8th grader? Here is your chance to prove it!

    Can you predict the altitude of a rocket better than a kid? TARC Team members, are you smarter than all the 'rocket scientist' on the Forum?

    Bring it on!

    Predict the average altitude of the two Pathfinder rockets launched at TARC Day. The details of the rockets can be found at http://tarcday.b0x.com/ and the build logs at http://www.flickr.com/photos/roc_tarc/ Post your prediction by 10/8. Rember this is the average altitude of the two rockets!

    A prize will be given to the closest estimate posted.
    As a bonus there will also be a prize to the closest estimate made by a TARC team Member (post your team name and Mentors name if you have one). You must be on a registered TARC team to win.

    Each winner will receive a $25 gift certificate to a TRF advertiser of my choosing.

    -Kevin
     
  2. Sep 2, 2010 #2

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    I'm wondering how close some of the Jr. Rocket Scientist get.

    If you have any questions about the rockets or the build, post them here. If any one wants a 3d cad model of the rockets I can post it in Rhino, STEP, or IGES formats.

    Mike K.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2010 #3

    DaveHein

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    The motor specs are shown as TBD. It will be hard to estimate the altitude without knowing the details of the motor that will be used. When will that be available?
     
  4. Sep 2, 2010 #4

    GregGleason

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    Would you mind posting one of the rockets in Rhino? Pick your favorite. :D

    Greg
     
  5. Sep 2, 2010 #5

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    The baseline motor is a F62T with a medium delay.

    The 'Hare' is complete, I will be finishing the 'Tortoise' this weekend.

    Oh, the order of the pictures on the build log is a bit out of order, I need to figure out how to fix that on FLICKR, it is in the right order in the sets.

    The piece of paper I'm wrapping around the body tube on 'Hare' has marks for slotting the tube. I guess it is hard to see whats on the paper. I can take a picture or post the rendering if anyone is interested. On 'Hare' I just free cut by hand to the paper with a knife, no guides were used. On 'Tortoise' I will use a guide to keep the cuts straighter.

    I will post the Rhino files later today.

    Mike K

    P.S. For the record, my kid thinks the names of the rockets are dumb, "Tortoise, Hare, yeah I get it dad.... (add patronizing 10 yr old look here)".
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  6. Sep 2, 2010 #6

    DaveHein

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    Will the F62 be used for the actual flights, or is there a chance that some other motor will be used? The F62 has an impulse of 51 N*s. Most other F motors have a higher impulse than this.

    I built a modifed Estes Executioner a few years ago that had a similar diameter and weight. I know how high it went on an Aerotech F25 motor and RoadRunner F35 and F60 motors. I never flew it on an F62, but the altitude would be a bit lower with that motor.

    Also, where do we post our prediction?
     
  7. Sep 3, 2010 #7

    kramer714

    kramer714

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  8. Sep 3, 2010 #8

    kramer714

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    I picked the F62T because I have a few of them around. It should get it 'plenty high'. I didn't pic the motor to get to TARC altitude, could be higher or lower..

    Mike K
     
  9. Sep 3, 2010 #9

    ScrapDaddy

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    :D:D:D:D
    SD
     
  10. Sep 3, 2010 #10

    DaveHein

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    So where do I post my prediction?
     
  11. Sep 3, 2010 #11

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    Just post them on here.


    P.S. Scrap, I figured I would get you going with that one, well, where is your guess (um estimate)
     
  12. Sep 3, 2010 #12

    ScrapDaddy

    ScrapDaddy

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    782 Feet
    SD
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010
  13. Sep 3, 2010 #13

    DaveHein

    DaveHein

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  14. Sep 3, 2010 #14

    DaveHein

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    ScrapDaddy, wasn't your prediction over 900 feet when you first posted it? Hmmm, are we allowed to change our prediction?:confused2: If I get bracketted by other people predicting 749 and 751 I reserve the right to change my prediction at the last minute.:)
     
  15. Sep 3, 2010 #15

    ScrapDaddy

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    That was before I read all the posts, I was assuming they were flying on an F10, hence the SLIGHTlY larger guess. Jk :Dbut I really didn't know too much about it, before I pulled up openrocket.
    Oh, I also reserve the right to chance my answer if I get a cavity (dentist tommorow)
     
  16. Sep 7, 2010 #16

    kramer714

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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/roc_tarc/

    Some updates on the TORTOISE build.

    What tools are you using to estimate the altitude?

    Parametrics? ( fancy way of saying compared it to one of my rockets)
    Spacecad, Open rocket, Rocsim?
    Ouiji Board? Dice, random number generator, loosing lottery ticket number..?

    Swag? (Scientific Wild Ass Guess)
    ROM? (rough order of magnitude guess)
    Pooma? (number you Pulled Out Of My....)
     
  17. Sep 7, 2010 #17

    MarkII

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    Not likely, especially since I routinely get outwitted by trout..........
     
  18. Sep 11, 2010 #18

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    build update TARC day Rockets

    Next step add launch lugs and finish

    Launch lugs are brass tube bonded with DP-420 on both rockets.

    any other estimates?

    tort aft view.JPG

    hare aft view.JPG

    tort - hare unfinished.jpg
     
  19. Sep 12, 2010 #19

    OverLord

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    720 feet....

    Mike
     
  20. Sep 12, 2010 #20

    gdiscenza

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    Predicted average of 634 ft

    G.D.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  21. Sep 25, 2010 #21

    CharlaineC

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  22. Oct 2, 2010 #22

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    A CHANGE!!!!!

    With one week to go before TARCday and the launch of the pathfinder rockets there are few changes.

    The motor has been changed to a Pro29 51F36-14A
    Cesaroni Technology and Whats Up Hobbies http://stores.whatsuphobby.com have donated the Pro29 F36 Blue Streak motors for TARC day. At TARC day we will demonstrate setting the delays for these motors.

    The parachutes will be Rocketchutes.com TARC2011 TARC Competition Chutes. These were donated by Rocketchutes.com. Nice looking bright red 13g chutes. Thanks Rocketchutes!!

    The motor cases from Cesaroni, chutes from Rocketchutes, plus Perfectflite altimeter Donated from Perfectflite and Kevin Davidson, will all be raffled off to registered TARC teams that come out to TARCday (flier attached). Thanks again to all the sponsors of TARCday.

    The final weights are...

    498 grams for Tortoise
    508 grams for Hare

    These weights are complete, less the weight of the motor and wadding.

    Change your estimates?????

    View attachment roctober flyer - TARC 8-14 b.pdf
     
  23. Oct 2, 2010 #23

    scsager

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    My estimate is 705 ft average for the 2 rockets.
     
  24. Oct 7, 2010 #24

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    Put in your estimates (guesses?) soon.

    The rockets will be launched on Saturday 10/9 TARCday during the ROCtober launch at Lucerne Dry Lakebed, Lucerne Valley California. The weather is supposed to be perfect, sunny high of 80, little wind. Perfect Rocket Weather!

    If you have any last minute questions about the rockets post them soon!

    Any local TARC teams, come out and help launch the pathfinders, lots of good raffle prizes to the REGISTERED TARC teams that come out.
     
  25. Oct 11, 2010 #25

    DaveHein

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    What was the average altitude of the two rockets?
     
  26. Oct 12, 2010 #26

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    And the results are.....

    We had a last minute change to the Aerotech F27 single use motors...
    If anyone wants to change their guesses I will post the results tomorrow (Wednesday) A.M.

    It was a PERFECT day for rockets, wind was almost non existent, not a cloud in the sky and at launch time temps were around 75. We had 5 registered teams show and many other people coming by to ask about TARC. The TARC teams walked out with LOTS of supplies from the TARC day raffle.

    Thanks again to the TARC day sponsors, rocketchutes.com, Cesaroni, Perfectflite, Whats Up Hobbies, Kevin Davidson, and ROC members who donated supplies.
     
  27. Oct 13, 2010 #27

    kramer714

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    And the results are;

    Tortoise 1,024 feet AGL
    Hare 953 feet AGL
     
  28. Oct 19, 2010 #28

    ScrapDaddy

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    Woah, i won!
     
  29. Oct 19, 2010 #29

    kramer714

    kramer714

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    I'm wondering how come everyone guessed so low. Just wondering did you model it or were they just WAG for the altitudes?

    my model on Rocsim came pretty close on the HARE, not so close on the tortoise as to be expected. If you simulated it, did you use the field elevation in the starting conditions?
     
  30. Oct 19, 2010 #30

    DaveHein

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    I based my estimate on the altitude I got with a modified Estes Executioner, which had the same diameter and about the same mass. I launched my Executioner on an F25, and it had a mass of 650 grams with the motor and a camera. It reached an altitude of 1,100 feet.

    I adjusted the altitude based on the difference in mass and impulse between the two rockets, and got a number of 770 feet. I launched at an elevation of 900 feet and it was very humid. Maybe the difference in altitude is due to the low humidity and higher elevation of Lucerne Valley.

    I should have changed my guess to 783 feet at the last minute.:)

    Dave
     

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