Are these digital signature pads enforceable?

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BABAR

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I’ve seen these mainly at medical clinics, but maybe also car rentals.

On the counter they have a one line digital signature pad.

No screen, so you can’t actually see the document you are signing.

The say, “okay , now you are signing the consent form.”

Okay, now you are signing the ,”I promise to pay form”

I mean, you don’t SEE the document, you could be signing away your first born child or your car or donating your liver.

Kinda wondered if anyone has ever contested one of these.
 
I think they'd be enforceable as long as the medical clinic or car rental place can say they offered you the opportunity to read the fine print.

As for the digital pads for credit card purchases, I have no idea what the purpose of those are, really, as you can write or draw anything you want on those when you make a purchase. I guess if you claim a transaction wasn't made by you, they'd "go to the tape" and see "who" signed the pad when the transaction occured? But if someone was using your credit card w/o authorization, why would they sign their real name on the pad?
 
That's not much different than a signature-less "card present" transaction. If it's hacked, the burden of proof is on you because they physically had the card... even if it was a skimmed copy. That's why you should always use the tap whenever possible... that can't be skimmed.

Note that if you call the credit/debit card company right away, they will almost always reverse the transaction, and disable the card. Unfortunately I get my debit cards hacked almost annually... and they always do it on a Sunday, or on a holiday, because they know that you can't get ahold of the card provider's customer service line on those days.
 
Generally speaking, they should be showing you the document you are signing on their screen. Once you submit your signature, it will assign that signature image to the appropriate line in the document and the document will be stored with the signature. Some places will have laminated versions of the document they put in front of you so you can read it before you sign it.
 
... and they always do it on a Sunday, or on a holiday, because they know that you can't get ahold of the card provider's customer service line on those days.
Mine are available 24/7 including holidays.
 
Unfortunately I get my debit cards hacked almost annually... and they always do it on a Sunday, or on a holiday, because they know that you can't get ahold of the card provider's customer service line on those days.
Why do you get hacked so much? Your business or something?
 
Generally speaking, they should be showing you the document you are signing on their screen. Once you submit your signature, it will assign that signature image to the appropriate line in the document and the document will be stored with the signature. Some places will have laminated versions of the document they put in front of you so you can read it before you sign it.
Either way, still the same issue. If they aren’t on the same screen, how do you know they are linked?

Of course, every time you get a new iPad or sign up for something, there is often a legal agreement that it 15 pages long that a suspect nearly nobody ever reads, so even if they DID show it to me not sure I’d catch much.
 
Generally speaking, they should be showing you the document you are signing on their screen. Once you submit your signature, it will assign that signature image to the appropriate line in the document and the document will be stored with the signature. Some places will have laminated versions of the document they put in front of you so you can read it before you sign it.
I think they'd be enforceable as long as the medical clinic or car rental place can say they offered you the opportunity to read the fine print.
I was recently at a Doctors office and they had me use the signature pad. I balked about not knowing what I was signing. They offered to print me a copy AFTER I signed it. And as BABAR pointed out, I really don't know if the signature was really associated with that document. In fact, once they have stored the signature, in theory they could apply it to any number of documents....

I really don't like them, but have little option (besides not seeing doctors anymore, which at my age really isn't an option)
 
They offered to print me a copy AFTER I signed it.
That's awesome! I say that because if litigation occured, you'd have a much stronger argument to void that contract.

Sometimes I wonder how effective these contracts of adhesion really are when presented before a judge. I think businesses are just using these to bluff their customers/clients/patients into not suing or accepting a lower settlement if litigation were considered. Or, if I want to be less cynical, these contracts are being used by businesses to help their owners sleep better at night, even if that goodnight's rest is based on a lie or shaky legal ground.

I know businesses use contracts containing provisions that aren't enforceable. But I suppose it's cheaper to leave them as is and not spent the time and effort of modifying them when they already contain a provision that says the contract is still valid even if one or more provisions are deemed to be invalid (I forget what these provisions are called).
 
I rent heavy equipment to large and small contractors, and home owners. Almost every is honest. Some people are not.

Our contracts are signed on a tablet computer, photos are taken of the machine, and the credit or debit card is authorized.

Yes the signature holds up in court. Yes the signature holds up in a false charge back from the customers credit card company.

It is a giant pain in the butt, the customer ends up on the hook for the legal fees and court costs as well as the rent and damage.

Sometimes it takes years, but the judges will actually send a sheriff's deputy, and tow truck to take cars to auction, or liens on property will be paid or the property will sold at auction.

Now this sounds harsh, untill you pay 250,000 for a machine that someone does 40,000 dollars worth of damage to, then reports thier card stolen, then tells you on the phone, "I am going to f$#@ you out of it."

The authorized charge against the card is locked, and you still have to pay the bank for a broken machine, pay to fix it, and can't make a dime till it is repaired.

I am a absolute jerk when in comes to that situation, and have no quarter for people who try to harm my coworkers, the business, and my own family's ability to eat.

So yes I know for a fact the signature is valid in court.

We scan thier drivers license as well.

When signed by email we have a logged IP address, and time stamp.

We still occasionally get screwed, but it is very rare now.

The best advice I ever got, was "Sometimes the best deal you will ever make with a person, is no."
 
Why do you get hacked so much? Your business or something?
My PayPal debit card gets hacked almost annually. Considering that 99% of the purchases that I make are to the same half a dozen large and highly legitimate vendors, and that other online purchases are always through PayPal and not by the card number, not sure how that happens. When I buy gas for launches, I always use the same few stations too... brand-name gas, busy stations, taps not swipes. Not sure how the skimming happens, but it does... and the "card present" transactions always seem to originate in Florida.
 
I’ve seen these mainly at medical clinics, but maybe also car rentals.

On the counter they have a one line digital signature pad.

No screen, so you can’t actually see the document you are signing.

The say, “okay , now you are signing the consent form.”

Okay, now you are signing the ,”I promise to pay form”

I mean, you don’t SEE the document, you could be signing away your first born child or your car or donating your liver.

Kinda wondered if anyone has ever contested one of these.
No idea, but they keep having people sign away.
 
No idea, but they keep having people sign away.
"Sign away" is the operative.
Sometimes I just write some superhero name on the terminal (Spiderman/Superman/Groot). They accept it.
My company has written checks, some for what I'd call a lot of money, and if there is no signature by accident (accidentally unsigned), my bank will still process those checks--unfortunately without calling me. Makes me wonder if anyone could fabricate a check with my company info on it, and the bank may accept it-no signature required.

They are primed well for some hard social engineering.
 
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When we wrote the software to support signature pads, we had to follow a lot of strict federal regulations on how to store the signatures, and it had to be a new signature for each document/place to sign. The document could be printed with the signature and given to the patient after we had collected the signature, and the workflow was to have the registrar show the document on the screen or give the patient a laminated copy of the document they were signing so they could see what they were signing.

Speaking as a developer, the software companies will do everything to the letter in this instance to keep themselves from being culpable for any misdeeds by the provider. There would be log files and what not to show what was done with each instance of your signature, and what it was applied to by the system.
 
Speaking as a developer, the software companies will do everything to the letter in this instance to keep themselves from being culpable for any misdeeds by the provider. There would be log files and what not to show what was done with each instance of your signature, and what it was applied to by the system.
Probably because they know the data extracted may be misused and sold for purposes for which it was not intended.

For instance, places (gas stations, truck stops, etc.) that want to do a magnetic stripe scan of a drivers license for buying anything for age (i.e. cigarettes, alcohol, etc..) for verification are a problem. I'm 54, don't look under 21. The license scan is for two purposes, one outwardly stated and one not. CYA on the first, data gathering/collecting all DMV or court information for some other purpose, second. Probably assigning this information to the credit card used, the e-mail address, car tags, something else maybe?. No idea.

If you go to a Speedway gas station and have your license scanned, and suddenly you have a boat load of e-mails from Speedway rewards, I guess that is an answer.

Paying cash resolves this.

My experience is you can draw a line (or a happy face) on the signature pad, and it works just as well as an actual signature.
 
My PayPal debit card gets hacked almost annually. Considering that 99% of the purchases that I make are to the same half a dozen large and highly legitimate vendors, and that other online purchases are always through PayPal and not by the card number, not sure how that happens. When I buy gas for launches, I always use the same few stations too... brand-name gas, busy stations, taps not swipes. Not sure how the skimming happens, but it does... and the "card present" transactions always seem to originate in Florida.
The few times mine have been hacked i get the same thing....Florida. I live in North Florida and the hacks always seem to come back to a residential address in a grimy neighborhood in south Florida. I have been able to do some investigating and find th actual house on Google Earth. Weird stuff.
 
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