Are Rocketry Warehouse's kits ever coming back? šŸ¤”

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As much as I love the actual components from CW, yeah, be prepared to wait a looooong time, and to pay for it long before you get it. Not sure I am going to put myself through that again.
 
Composite Warehouse and Rocketry Warehouse are essentially the same company, both owned and operated by Curtis Turner. The rockets he sells on the CW site are all the same ones he sold under the RW banner, although some have different names. As many people have noted, ordering online from Curtis will almost definitely cause you frustration. I live near Curtis's shop and stop there frequently. He has shifted much of his business to supplying commercial buyers and his rocket customers have become a secondary effort. In his own words, it is far more profitable to spend his time fulfilling a $40,000 order than trying to fulfill 80 $500 orders.

Madcow used to buy their parts from Curtis. Due to his inability to provide supply to them, they now source their parts from Tim at Wildman (which is why all their tubes are red now, unless it is from old RW stock). This meant they started removing the RW kits as they sold out their stock. It is unclear if they are going to design anything new and use Tim's parts or just end up being a Wildman reseller. The number of kits they have online has been steadily decreasing. This may be a good thing if they decide to really focus on a few rockets they want to design and sell instead of trying to maintain a stock of 100+ rockets. If you really want a RW/CW kit that Madcow has in stock, I highly recommend getting it soon or you may never see it again.
 
mtnmanak said:
[snip] I live near Curtis's shop and stop there frequently. He has shifted much of his business to supplying commercial buyers and his rocket customers have become a secondary effort. In his own words, it is far more profitable to spend his time fulfilling a $40,000 order than trying to fulfill 80 $500 orders. [/snip]
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Wow. That's not too big of a deal if you make that decision before accepting an order and charging a person, but once the transaction has taken place, less than 1 year for delivery would be ideal for hobby stuff, I'd think. To be fair, I'm only on day 343, so maybe I'm overreacting. Also, before anyone mentions the 'pay when ready to ship' option, I'm on day 251 from that, which I consider somewhat extended for a 'ready to ship' email. Again, I'm probably overreacting.

Sandy.
 
Sandy H. said:
Wow. That's not too big of a deal if you make that decision before accepting an order and charging a person, but once the transaction has taken place, less than 1 year for delivery would be ideal for hobby stuff, I'd think. To be fair, I'm only on day 343, so maybe I'm overreacting. Also, before anyone mentions the 'pay when ready to ship' option, I'm on day 251 from that, which I consider somewhat extended for a 'ready to ship' email. Again, I'm probably overreacting.

Sandy.
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Agree. I do not make online orders with Curtis any more. I only offer to go over and pay cash when the items are ready for me to pick up. if the items are not ready when I get there, I don't pay. For people in other parts of the country, I am not sure there is a real option to make purchases from CW anymore.

The two stumbling blocks in his operation are nosecones and fins. Making tubes is easy for them and they usually have bunches of them in stock. If you are just ordering tubes, you may be able to get an order relatively quickly. He is a year or more behind on nosecones right now (both because it is very slow to manufacture them and because he can't source the aluminum tips anymore) and is short on G10 sheet (for fins) because it has gotten very expensive and he doesn't want to buy the material at current prices. This means your kit is likely sitting in a corner with no nosecone or fins with no end in sight.

In my opinion (I obviously do not speak for Curtis in any way), he should have stopped taking orders for kits at least two years ago while his supply chain catches up and his ability to manufacture key parts gets back to normal. Taking orders when you know you can't supply key parts would likely lead to big problems in other industries...
 
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And the pattern continues into yet another year.

On CW's FB page he said back in May that they were working on the last of the 2021 Black Friday orders.....and recently more than a few folks have shown up asking "It's been ANOTHER 5 MONTHS, where's my stuff?"

The pattern described by Sandy H. is not uncommon. Probably even got a "Shipping label has been created" notification, too.

CW quality IS top notch, but WM stuff is just as good.

Some few select high profile folks get their stuff in short order(even to the point where they OBVIOUSLY have their orders jumped in line), most other folks not so much.

Most of the CW threads end up getting nuked and erased. Oh, and careful what you wish for, you might find yourself on the receiving end of some VERY nasty DMs and might even be blessed with some VERY nasty phone calls for daring to ask "Where's my stuff that I've paid for and waited patiently for". Ask me how I know!!!

ETA: Full disclosure, I own at least one copy of everything that RW/CW/MadCow has put out in the last 5 years from the smallies on up to most of the 4" rockets. I learned the hard way, and only purchase through third party that actually has stock on hand to ship.
 
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Sandy H. said:
Again, I'm probably overreacting.
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You are not overreacting. What you described is ridiculous. I hope you have been pestering him.

I gave CW a chance despite the bad reputation for one of the black friday deals and while I did finally get my order a few months after I paid, I rated that transaction as a "nope." From now on, if I want an FG rocket, I will be turning to Wildman. I would only ever buy a CW kit again secondhand.
 
mtnmanak said:
Agree. I do not make online orders with Curtis any more. I only offer to go over and pay cash when the items are ready for me to pick up. if the items are not ready when I get there, I don't pay. For people in other parts of the country, I am not sure there is a real option to make purchases from CW anymore.

The two stumbling blocks in his operation are nosecones and fins. Making tubes is easy for them and they usually have bunches of them in stock. If you are just ordering tubes, you may be able to get an order relatively quickly. He is a year or more behind on nosecones right now (both because it is very slow to manufacture them and because he can't source the aluminum tips anymore) and is short on G10 sheet (for fins) because it has gotten very expensive and he doesn't want to buy the material at current prices. This means your kit is likely sitting in a corner with no nosecone or fins with no end in sight.

In my opinion (I obviously do not speak for Curtis in any way), he should have stopped taking orders for kits at least two years ago while his supply chain catches up and his ability to manufacture key parts gets back to normal. Taking orders when you know you can't supply key parts would likely lead to big problems in other industries...
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Thank you for all the input sir, it is appreciated. Not going to opine on anything else... :headspinning:
 
Banzai88 said:
ETA: Full disclosure, I own at least one copy of everything that RW/CW/MadCow has put out in the last 5 years from the smallies on up to most of the 4" rockets. I learned the hard way, and only purchase through third party that actually has stock on hand to ship.
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Tom makes a good point about third party sellers - Kenny at Performance Hobbies is really great work with. He is probably the last vendor around that sources his parts from Curtis and he pretty much sells the whole CW catalogue plus a bunch of his own designs. It may take Kenny just as long to get the parts from Curtis, but Kenny won't actually charge you until he really does have the items ready to ship. I worked with Kenny on a couple nosecones over the summer and some hard to find couplers. He took the order online, but only charged me for each item once had procured them and shipped them. Excellent customer service from Ken - really great to work with. You can also email Ken before you order and he will give you a straight answer on how long it may be before he can ship a product.
 
mtnmanak said:
The two stumbling blocks in his operation are nosecones and fins. Making tubes is easy for them and they usually have bunches of them in stock. If you are just ordering tubes, you may be able to get an order relatively quickly. He is a year or more behind on nosecones right now (both because it is very slow to manufacture them and because he can't source the aluminum tips anymore) and is short on G10 sheet (for fins) because it has gotten very expensive and he doesn't want to buy the material at current prices.
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Aluminum tips are difficult to source?

I've got a lathe... If anyone desperately wants their kits and is willing to take tipless cones, I'll help ya out with just the tip.... o_O
 
mrwalsh85 said:
Aluminum tips are difficult to source?

I've got a lathe... If anyone desperately wants their kits and is willing to take tipless cones, I'll help ya out with just the tip.... o_O
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Yeah, honestly, I am not sure why these have become difficult for him to source, but that is one of the things he has been complaining about for the past 18 months or so. No clue where he gets them, but I agree with you - I can turn an aluminum tip, but it is impossible (for me) to make a fiber wound 12" nosecone.
 
In situations like this, visiting their home at 1am, from driving across several states, is a good way to send a message.

I handle things a little differently than most though.
 
Also........to all the OG's out there.

Is it just me or does this sound tragically similar to "Dangerous" Dave Gawlik?? Pretty crazy if you remember that whole sh!t show.
 
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If it werenā€™t for the fact that this is financially hurtful to you all this would seem like a comedic movie: Groundhog Day.

Donā€™t just threaten to get the FTC involved. Do it.
If he used false UPS numbers to convince you that shipping had happened, contact the fraud department of UPS.
Take him to small claims court.
This has been going on for years. He says that sooner of later everyone gets what they ordered but whether thatā€™s true or not he still repeatedly lies to you and uses your money.
 
I guess I've been very lucky. I have ordered three rocket kits from CW - order now, pay when shipped - and all three transactions were filled within a few weeks. My card was charged and the item was shipped soon after (within a day or two). All of these orders were from over a year ago.
 
wsume99 said:
I guess I've been very lucky. I have ordered three rocket kits from CW - order now, pay when shipped - and all three transactions were filled within a few weeks. My card was charged and the item was shipped soon after (within a day or two). All of these orders were from over a year ago.
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I have ordered several, and one even had missing parts. They were sent out in less than 2 weeks.
 
Even if many (or even most?) folks manage to get their orders shipped in some semi-reasonable timeframe, it baffles why anyone order kits from CW/RW knowing their history. Or is it that folks only learn about their history the hard way, after they give them a bunch of money?
 
neil_w said:
Even if many (or even most?) folks manage to get their orders shipped in some semi-reasonable timeframe, it baffles why anyone order kits from CW/RW knowing their history. Or is it that folks only learn about their history the hard way, after they give them a bunch of money?
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Yeah, personally I think that the various threads complaining about Curtis over the many years ought to be moved to a forum of their own.
 
Steve Shannon said:
Yeah, personally I think that the various threads complaining about Curtis over the many years ought to be moved to a forum of their own.
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They normally get merged, get nasty, and get nuked....thus the very limited history that shows up in the search function
 
neil_w said:
Even if many (or even most?) folks manage to get their orders shipped in some semi-reasonable timeframe, it baffles why anyone order kits from CW/RW knowing their history. Or is it that folks only learn about their history the hard way, after they give them a bunch of money?
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Several points-

1) I ordered all my kits before this most recent episode. I saw warnings about RW but at the time he had been on fairly good behavior since changing to CW.
2) I was ordering things I planned to put on the back of the build pile so if it took a long time to be fulfilled I wouldn't care.
3) The kits he was offering were priced very well. All of my orders were single kits. So my conclusion was that it was worth the perceived small risk to save a decent amount of money.
4) I think the most expensive kit I ordered was $140. Most were under $100.
5) I never placed another order until the previous order had already been fulfilled.

Basically I managed my risk. I would not have placed an order for $500. He doesn't have that good a reputation. I have placed pre-paid orders for thousands of dollars to other well known vendors and waited months for delivery. The difference was the reputation of the vendor.
 
wsume99 said:
Several points-

1) I ordered all my kits before this most recent episode. I saw warnings about RW but at the time he had been on fairly good behavior since changing to CW.
2) I was ordering things I planned to put on the back of the build pile so if it took a long time to be fulfilled I wouldn't care.
3) The kits he was offering were priced very well. All of my orders were single kits. So my conclusion was that it was worth the perceived small risk to save a decent amount of money.
4) I think the most expensive kit I ordered was $140. Most were under $100.
5) I never placed another order until the previous order had already been fulfilled.

Basically I managed my risk. I would not have placed an order for $500. He doesn't have that good a reputation. I have placed pre-paid orders for thousands of dollars to other well known vendors and waited months for delivery. The difference was the reputation of the vendor.
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1) You saw the warnings and still purchased from him...
2) Thats a good plan with him as you may never see either your money back or receive the kits ordered
3) His kits are always offered at tempting prices thats how so many have gotten screwed
4) Not much to say about that
5) Good plan on your part

Managing your risk does not make things better, the individual in question has repeatedly cheated lots of members of the rocketry community. As long as people don't listen and continue to feed the monster he will continue his crappy customer service/business model. As soon as he posted to Facebook or a minion of his (yes I will call the individual that vouched for him on FB a minion) everyone should have jumped on board and said dont buy anything from him, but people took risks and now they have been screwed....AGAIN.
 

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