Are Micro Models Not included in the LPR section?

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Micromeister

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Hey AK!
Shouldn't the Low Power Rockerty (LPR) title tag line read:

"Rockets that use Motors 1/8A through D Impluse"...

I was gonna upload a micro Solar Flare sorta build thread but maybe it's supposed to go somethere else??

Micro minds need ta know LOL!!!:D
 

mach7

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Micro,

Not much lower power. Seems like this should be the place!

Or maybe a Really low power rocketry section.:D
 

Gillard

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or perhaps Micromeister should have his own section;) - but then Jim flis will want one too
 

mach7

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Nothing wrong with either in my mind.
 

El Cheapo

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A Micro Only section would be great. They really are a different animal albeit a small one.
 

Micromeister

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Personally; I don't believe Micros need or should have a seperate section, but should be Listed as Included with the other LPR impluse motors.

As the new owners are in the process of setting up the format this board will take I just didn't want to start something in one spot only to be moved to another unnecessarly.

There is no difference in building technique or finishing on micros then with other LPR or MPR models for that matter. As a matter of fact many of the techniques formed for use on Micros have easily transferred to larger models.
 
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powderburner

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I agree with Micromeister that a whole separate forum might not be necessary. I think all he was asking for was a tweak to one forum label to acknowledge/highlight that MMX subjects are included in LPR.

Maybe, like we were supposed to be doing in TRF1 for posts about 'scale' rocketry (include the characters =scale= in the title), we could just include the designation =MMX= in the titles of posts about micromaxx rockets.

Sometime downstream, if there turns out to be a huge pile of posts about MMX stuff, maybe then we could talk about a separate forum?
 

rstaff3

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I agree with the agreers that they fit nicely in the LPR section. However, be aware that until the description is updated, I'm gonna pull any future MMX posts from that forum :p Oh, wait, I can't do that anymore :eek:
 

rstaff3

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Sorry if it came across mean. I was just trying to pick on micromeister, knowing that he know I'm a Micromaxx fan :)
 

cjl

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Micromaxx? Hmm...

Oh, yeah. Those are one power class below igniters, right?

:p
 

blackjack2564

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Micromaxx? Hmm...

Oh, yeah. Those are one power class below igniters, right?

:p
Funny story about that: Couple of years ago I met Jim Flis at NERRF. I went to his booth, and he was busily putting the finishing touches on the smallest rocket I had ever seen. It was a micro Honest John. Cute little bugger, [the ROCKET!] I asked him it it actually would fly. At the time I was totally unaware of Micro stuff.
Anyhow he replied it did, and was about to fly it for the first time. Then pulled out the tiny motor and began to prep, while instructing me in the art of Micros. I could not believe my eyes when I saw it.
I happened to have a Big'un igniter in my pocket and pulled it out for comparison. Yep it was substantially larger then his motor. We both laughed, and I watched him fly it, I wasn't laughing then. Those little rockets scoot!
My hats off to all you guys that have the patience to build and detail those tiny things. I know it requires as much or more skill than the big stuff I do. One of these days I'll have to make the leap. My only fear is I'll probably go off the deep end with them.
 

cjl

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Micros are awesome - I have a Diminutive Deuce as well as a TOG, and I love them. Great little rockets (though they can certainly be a pain). They definitely scoot off the pad though.
 

jflis

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One of the first micros I designed (the Crayon), I lost the proto type... I had flown small rockets before (in fact, many much smaller than micromaxx), but I didn't have experience with that particular motor... I'm 15 feet away from the pad, all by myself and WHOOSH! - GONE!

That's was it and I was hooked! LOL
 

blackjack2564

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Ok , you know I gotta ask.....what's smaller and what motors do they fly on?
 

jflis

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Here are a few pictures. These things make Micromaxx motors look like "Mighty D" motors LOL

These are Czech motors brought back by Art Rose back in the 1980's. Art was kind enough to give me a small bag of each size to test and experiment with. You can see some of Art with these things on my personal web site by clicking here.

Looking at the first pix below, the rocket on the right uses a 3/16" launch lug as a lower body tube and a standard lug as the upper body... I have a 1:1600 Saturn V (with escape tower) around here somewhere...

The next picture shows motors from the nozzle end. The micromaxx is the third from the right.

The last pix shows them from the side.

The orange motor is a "7" (you can just see the designation in this pic)
the red one is a "25"

The number indicates how high, in meter, the motor will send a 1 gram model...

very cool little motors

femto01.jpg


femto02.jpg


femto03.jpg
 
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Micromeister

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One of the first micros I designed (the Crayon), I lost the proto type... I had flown small rockets before (in fact, many much smaller than micromaxx), but I didn't have experience with that particular motor... I'm 15 feet away from the pad, all by myself and WHOOSH! - GONE!

That's was it and I was hooked! LOL

Yea Jim; but my Crayons are older, full "scale" and a full Set.. LOL!!!!!

I also had the pleasure, or fright depending on how well the motors were made of playing around a little with a few of those 5 or 6mm Czech motors I got from Dennis Cryway after one of the Internat's trips. They were certainly interesting, I think he and Howard..or maybe it was Art Rose, flew some in a gym back in the day as well;)
Sure wish I still had a few, they were truely some amazingly tiny motors.

MM 272e27-sm_White on pad &8pk Storage box_06-05-03.jpg


MM 272e26a-sm_8pk Storage Box with Models_06-05-03.jpg
 
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jflis

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Yea Jim; but my Crayons are older, full "scale" and a full Set.. LOL!!!!!

I also had the pleasure, or fright depending on how well the motors were made of playing around a little with a few of those 5 or 6mm Czech motors I got from Dennis Cryway after one of the Internat's trips. They were certainly interesting, I think he and Howard..or maybe it was Art Rose, flew some in a gym back in the day as well;)
Sure wish I still had a few, they were truely some amazingly tiny motors.
You, dear sir, are a sick, SICK man...


...I like that :D

Yeah, that was Art Rose who flew them in the gym at Pearl River. The launch pad had a 8' thin launch rod in the center of a plastic box. The launch button was on the corner of that box... (hey, it was the manufactures launch pad and recommended use, so... :D )

Here's a pix of Art pushing the launch button.

Chris Travaris didn't agree and filed a safety complaint to the NAR...
 

MarkII

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Good God, man, what were the dimensions of those little buggers? And any idea of the total impulse? Finally, did they have delays and ejection charges?

I have sometimes wondered if it was possible to make micro engines smaller than Micromaxx. Like 3mm or 4mm. (Yeah, REALLY tiny ones. But how on Earth to ignite them? :confused: ) Also, I know that people are building 13mm composite EX motors using reloadable hardware. Could 6mm be next? :D I'm not advocating any of this (calm down, Micromeister...), I'm just wondering if or when we will hear of someone trying to do any of these things.

Mark \\.
 

cjl

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Those dinky things are ridiculous :D

I love it. I'll stick to the MMX and bigger though - it's hard enough to do everything on the micromaxx, much less anything smaller.
 

billspad

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Good God, man, what were the dimensions of those little buggers? And any idea of the total impulse? Finally, did they have delays and ejection charges?

I have sometimes wondered if it was possible to make micro engines smaller than Micromaxx. Like 3mm or 4mm. (Yeah, REALLY tiny ones. But how on Earth to ignite them? :confused: ) Also, I know that people are building 13mm composite EX motors using reloadable hardware. Could 6mm be next? :D I'm not advocating any of this (calm down, Micromeister...), I'm just wondering if or when we will hear of someone trying to do any of these things.

Mark \\.
I saw someone make a micro reloadable out of a piece of thermalite inside a piece of brass tubing. It generated enough thrust to lift itself and the rocket it was in.
 

jflis

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For those of you going to NARCON I will try to remember to bring these with me so that you can see them up close. They really are cool and I loved flying them (I only have a few motors left and don't plan to use them...)
 

Micromeister

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Actually MarkII:
One of the MMX group has already been trying APCP micro motors. Can't tell ya much more then that as he's working on his own, and to me it's still an EX motor;)

I do know they have worked, how well? like Bill was saying may have been iffy.

Ps: Just to be clear, I won't use or fly APCP micro motors either, it's just against my religion.
 

powderburner

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I guess (being an engineer/nerd) I can understand the 'challenge' of mastering the design and construction of these motors.

But these are highly unlikely to EVER go into production---they kind of go against the whole idea of simple/cheap/fast/easy like we already have available through Quest production MMX motors.

And at the bottom line, what do you actually get out of this? I mean, if you want a 'high-power' MMX motor, go get an Estes A.

(Or am I missing something here?)
 

billspad

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I guess (being an engineer/nerd) I can understand the 'challenge' of mastering the design and construction of these motors.

But these are highly unlikely to EVER go into production---they kind of go against the whole idea of simple/cheap/fast/easy like we already have available through Quest production MMX motors.

And at the bottom line, what do you actually get out of this? I mean, if you want a 'high-power' MMX motor, go get an Estes A.

(Or am I missing something here?)
I think most of the EX guys will tell you that they don't do it because it's simpler, cheaper, faster or easier. In fact it's none of those. It is the challenge that they're after.

I've never had any interest in mixing my own propellant but I've got to admit that an APCP MicoMaxx size motor is intriguing.
 

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