Are Estes F15-6 and F15-8 motors still in production?

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Initiator001

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DeWain's information squares with mine. I also reached out to Estes and learned that they are rebuilding the machine used to make them and that once that is done, they will be making them again.
My information is that the previous owners of the company did not want to invest in a fully automated motor machine as was used for making all the other motors. There were some 'manual' steps involved in the original production of the E16 and F15 motors.

This downtime will be used to improve the machine to eliminate the manual steps in producing these motors.
 

Initiator001

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I wonder if the automation improvements would translate into a lower consumer cost.
That is very unlikely.

When I was at AeroTech the molded casing for the 24mm and 29mm was developed which would reduce manufacturing time/labor.

AeroTech made a big announcement at the 1991 RCHTA Show about the new lower Suggested Retail Price (SRP).
We ended up getting yelled at and threatened by hobby distributors and especially hobby shops.
They had bought product at the earlier prices and would not make as much profit if they had to mark down their in-stock product to the 'new' SRP.

AeroTech had to compensate every hobby distributor and hobby shop with free motors to make up for their 'perceived' loss of profit due to the price reduction.

We learned our lesson. Only raise prices, never lower them.
 

DeWain

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Using reloadable 24mm and 29mm motors is indeed more affordable than using 29mm black powder motors in single-stage Estes PSII rockets, but there is something really cool about using 29mm backpowder motors in upscale classic rockets. They give the upscale more of the look and feel of the flight of the original rocket.

Who knows, maybe the 29mm motors will be more affordable after Estes does the rebuild of their motor-making machine. Even if they are still the same price, they are worth the money for large multi-stagers and for classic upscales.
 

artgsc

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Eventually, I would like to stage my Estes Majestic with a F15-0 in the booster and a F-15-8 in the rocket...

Estes Majestic.jpg
 

artgsc

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.Going to look in to the suggestions on reloadables for my Estes Argent and Star Orbiter as well...
 

Initiator001

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F15-0 is a heavy motor for its meager boosting thrust. Consider using an E16-0 to the F15 sustainer
Agree.

I have bought and flown all the PSII E2X kits, several with the booster unit.

The E16-0 is barely enough power to keep the second stage/sustainer vertical at staging.

Try a model with much less mass to use a F15-0/F15-8 combination.
 

afadeev

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DeWain's information squares with mine. I also reached out to Estes and learned that they are rebuilding the machine used to make them and that once that is done, they will be making them again.
Bill Stine just confirmed during NAR Manufacturers Forum that the machine redesign is complete, and they will be restocking the supply chain over the next 30-60 days.

Der Big Red Max will also be re-introduced in 1Q'21 to make use of the new 29mm motors.
 

cwbullet

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Also, new initiators, falcon heavy, and a Saturn 1B
 

Scott_650

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Also, new initiators, falcon heavy, and a Saturn 1B
Bill Stine just confirmed during NAR Manufacturers Forum that the machine redesign is complete, and they will be restocking the supply chain over the next 30-60 days.

Der Big Red Max will also be re-introduced in 1Q'21 to make use of the new 29mm motors.
This info came out during the webinar? Awesome!! Does this mean MDRM went on a diet during its interregnum or that we’re getting higher powered 29mm motors?
 

afadeev

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This info came out during the webinar? Awesome!! Does this mean MDRM went on a diet during its interregnum or that we’re getting higher powered 29mm motors?
I really hope NAR recorded the video and will upload it to YouTube, since there were a lot of fantastic presentations by all the vendors you've heard about, and then some. Plus you get to put people's faces to the names and usernames you may have heard from on TRF!

Not sure about the resurrected MDRM weight, or whether or not there will be new 29mm BP motors, but the old ones were promised to be more reliable. And as long as they reappear in HobbyLobby and save me the HazMat shipping charges, I will be a happy buyer of those.

New and improved Saturn 1B and Saturn V-SkyLab are coming out around this black Friday / Xmas season.
There was one other beautifully finished 1:200 RTF rocket that should be ready this Xmas as well, but I can't recall the name of it right now (it will come to me as soon as I hit "post").
 

SecondRow

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Does this mean MDRM went on a diet during its interregnum or that we’re getting higher powered 29mm motors?
Diet. It’ll be a 3” red max.

There was one other beautifully finished 1:200 RTF rocket that should be ready this Xmas as well, but I can't recall the name of it right now (it will come to me as soon as I hit "post").
SLS/Orion
 

Scott_650

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Not sure about the resurrected MDRM weight, or whether or not there will be new 29mm BP motors, but the old ones were promised to be more reliable. And as long as they reappear in HobbyLobby and save me the HazMat shipping charges, I will be a happy buyer of those.
Unfortunately, if HL doesn’t sell any PSII rockets that fly on 29mm motors they won’t be stocking them...there’s always hope they’ll pick up the new SDRM, SBB, etc, but I’m not holding my breath. Hope I'm wrong.
 

BEC

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THAT would have been a great question to ask Bill and Ellis during the webinar. I’m sorry I didn’t think of that....
 

shreadvector

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Hopefully, some "flammable" ones . . . The "Cornstarch" ones are junk !

Dave F.
Exothermic

I assume they mean exothermic reaction, not just exothermic. Nichrome wire plus electric current is exothermic.
 

caveduck

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There is a black coating on the tip again. The cornstarch ones can be improved quite a bit by just removing the cornstarch with water...

It's been tempting to make "old school" starters again by getting a roll of #37 nichrome and making a 1-loop coil by forming around a pen tip. Bonus points for wire-wrapping onto some extension leads from used e-matches. Those things take a fair amount of current, but now we have LiPo's that really deliver.
 

Ez2cDave

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Exothermic

I assume they mean exothermic reaction, not just exothermic. Nichrome wire plus electric current is exothermic.

Hopefully, they will utilize an energetic pyrogen !
 

MOF410

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Apogee said they didnt have any shipments scheduled and when I asked estes they said they are producing and plan to have them in stock by October or November 2020.

If I find them elsewhere before then, il order 30 and then post the link here...lol
 

DeltaVee

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Hopefully, they will utilize an energetic pyrogen !
Well what I saw on the forum had some black stuff at the tip... whatever it was it should help reliability I would hope... that said, however, from my usage of these things that out of dozens of launches, even the cornstarch ones worked for me... I think I had two or three not ignite the motor. And that does include two and three motor clusters... no matter what, if the tip isn't touching the propellant grain....
 

Ez2cDave

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Well what I saw on the forum had some black stuff at the tip... whatever it was it should help reliability I would hope...
"Fire, GOOD . . . Cornstarch, BAD" !

Dave F.
 

heada

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Cornstarch can act as a secondary fuel and augment the starter assuming there is a good pyrogen below it. I don't believe that is the case for these. Sounds like the new pyrogen formula should fix the issue and remove the need for the cornstarch.
 

neil_w

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Hopefully, they will utilize an energetic pyrogen !
I believe at some point they explicitly said it is *not* pyrogen. It is unclear exactly what it is. I would speculate that they would not have gone to the trouble of making the change if it didn't improve performance meaningfully. I look forward to tests; my supply of black-tipped igniters is getting close to zero.
 

heada

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I believe at some point they explicitly said it is *not* pyrogen. It is unclear exactly what it is. I would speculate that they would not have gone to the trouble of making the change if it didn't improve performance meaningfully. I look forward to tests; my supply of black-tipped igniters is getting close to zero.
I believe that wording was exothermic mixture. Not sure how that is different from a pyrogen.
 

neil_w

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I believe that wording was exothermic mixture. Not sure how that is different from a pyrogen.
Well now I went and looked up "pyrogen" and it seems it is a fairly generic term, so maybe there is no difference. We'll see when they start shipping them, or when clubs start getting batches to do testing. I look forward to the first slow-mo video showing what they actually do.
 

kuririn

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Calling it exothermic rather than pyrogen may be careful wording due to regulations. Like changing the name from igniters to starters. I remember the term "more energetic" being used also. Which would imply close proximity rather than contact would be all that's needed for ignition. Fingers crossed.
 
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