Arcie II

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Hey ARCIE II builders..flyers!! Anyone flying their gliders yet? Mine is built....DOH!!....but I have not installed the electronics yet. Did anyone notice the pictures from NARAM LIVE? Looks like GEORGE'S....I think that is his name....ARCIE suffered some motor thrust burn on the top of his wing! I was wondering if we should put some protective heat shielding across this area. I have some ducting adhesive tape made of tin-foil like material that you can get at the hardware stores, very thin and light, that I have lined the inside of body tubes with recessed cluster motor mounts for protection of the tube with good success. I wonder if we should consider this....or did what happened to this ARCIE something else entirely. Anyone know about this?
 
Wow! Interesting burn pattern. Starts about an inch or two off center then moves inward. This *seems* to be consistent with a partially plugged nozzle that exhausted a bit off to the side. Freestream pushed the aft part of the plume to the centerline. I have a CiCi2 which roasted one of the wings on the first flight. Only reasonable explanation on that one was a partially plugged nozzle as well.

I haven't built my Arcie yet...still waiting for it to be officially given to me...*sigh*. I'd hate to add weight to the wing, but don't favor roasting either. I wonder if a bit of metallic monokote straddling the centerline would help this.
 
Thanks for the reply! If you have a QUEST FLAT CAT, the metallic decal that is put on the wing acts as a sort of protective from the motor blast. Looks like if this was a common problem, Edmonds would have included something like that for the wing. After electronics are installed, a thin reflective protection might be negligible weight-wise to the overall weight. The material I have is light and stiff much like the decal for the FLAT CAT. A deflected nozzle sounds like a good explanation for that. I hope someone would chime in that knows the exact particulars of that flight.
 
Hi everybody, sorry about the loooong wait since my last post... I was in Colorado for a family visit, then my PC went kablooey, and we went to Myrtle Beach on vacation (we got booted out at 11:00pm the final night there, though, thanks to Charlie - ever drive 500 miles in one stretch AFTER a the end of a long full day?).

The PC is up again, so I'll post some pics soon. In the meantime, here's the status.

My Arcie II is finally flight-ready! Construction went with nary a hitch. I had to trim about 1/8" off the ends of the ailerons, as they were a little too long to fit between the fuselage and the wing tip plates without binding. All-up glider weight (battery and RX installed) is about 3.5 ounces, probably a hair more after I add some weight to the left wing for balance (the left wing was REAL light compared to the right wing, as described previously). I used a Hitec 555 receiver (with the case removed), not Hitec's lighter 'feather' receiver, so I had to enlarge the RX cutout in the fuselage a little. The slip-on shroud fits over the 555 receiver, but with a proounced bulge. On the other hand, I saved about 3 grams by using a Hitec HS-50 micro servo instead of the HS-55 servo called for in the instructions (I shimmed the servo tray a bit to position the control arm in the same location where the HS-55's would be).

I decided to give the balsa a light coat of oil-based polyurethane, allowing it to just soak in a bit, then wiping off the excess. This is a common technique used on wood RC gliders, to help resist moisture, and it also seals the balsa, allowing a smoother finish after sanding. This should help to reduce drag and increase the boost altitude. The weight penalty for this was only 2 grams, not too bad.

I gave the slip-on shroud a whimsical yellow & black striped paint scheme, giving my glider a wasp-like appearance. The booster got a similar treatment.

I have a family function to attend today, so unfortunately I will have to defer the flight report for a few more days.

Stay tuned!
 
Going by votes on my site I will be putting some Arcie IIs up in August as the special of the month. I just talked to Rob and placed an order so they shouldn't have any known defects.
 
No flight report yet, but here's the photo.
 
Ok... Late to the party but thought I'd comment on the burn marks on the wing (Since that is me).

The stack hung on the pad. During the burn the glider fell off the pad and got blasted by the exhaust plume.

Pretty simple explanation.

That was flight #2.

Flight #1 was perfect. Got several minutes of glide time.

Flight #3 was the final flight for the day as I managed to lose both rudders about 1/2 the way up and the glider simply did a flat spin thus saving the RC gear.

George Rachor (aka Curious George)
 
Originally posted by Curious George
Flight #3 was the final flight for the day as I managed to lose both rudders about 1/2 the way up and the glider simply did a flat spin thus saving the RC gear.

George Rachor (aka Curious George)
George, did that happen on a D12-3?

I'm wondering if it might be safer just to go straight to E9-4's, with their gentler thrust characteristics.
 
I went down to NOVAAR's launch with Don Brown yesterday, along with my
son, Andrew. We had a fantastic day, the weather was perfect, just a
little bit on the hot side though. Fortunately we had canopies and lots
and lots of water to help beat the heat. Winds were light until later
in the afternoon, when they picked up enough to discourage high altitude
flights. Still, it provided welcome relief from the heat.

My Arcie-II made 3 successful (mostly) flights.

First flight - D12-3. The boost was perfect, and after ejection the glider
quickly settled into a nice glide. After a few moments I realized it was
pulling left, so I entered some right trim and she straightened out nicely.
The CG, set where Rob Edmond's instructions said it should be, was just
about bang-on perfect. Glide time was about 1:30, and control was EASY the
whole flight. You can't make mistakes flying this glider, it won't let you!
Just move the stick left or right, and let it turn in the direction you want
it to go.

Second flight - E9-4. For this next flight I decided to get a little bold,
and moved up to an E9-4. Boost was perfect again, although at max velocity
the stack seemed to get a little 'squirrelly' and started rolling a bit.
It settled down though and coasted up through apogee, where ejection and
separation occurred flawlessly again. Altitude was a good bit better than
the D12-3, and at the limit of comfortable visibility. About 1/2 way through
this flight, however, I experienced my only problem of the day. After giving
the glider right trim again, and pushing the stick all the way to the right,
it began circling (almost spiraling) in that direction and wouldn't come out
of it. I lost effective control of the glider as it drifted downwind, and
it landed behind the parking area a couple of hundred yards away. There was
no damage, though. Upon reaching the glider I found out what went wrong.
The combination of right trim and full right stick resulted in one servo arm
getting jammed against the side of the elevon control horn. I flexed the elevon
down and the servo arm popped free and returned to its centered position.
Flight time was over 2 minutes, despite the control problems.

After this second flight, I added some weight (tape) to the right wing, to
counteract its tendancy to turn left, instead of the right trim I had given
it before. This way I wouldn't risk another control jam, since the servo arm
can't get stuck behind the elevon control arm unless I apply full stick AND
additional trim.

Third flight - D12-3, my 12-year-old son Andrew flew the Arcie this turn. This
was Andrew's first ever R/C flight (except for one brief moment at the controls
of my 2M glider), so he was a perfect guinea pig to test the "total beginner"
aspect of the Arcie II's intended audience. Boost was perfect again, and after
settling into its glide the Arcie behaved nicely. As it was directly overhead,
Andrew didn't get 'turned around' so to speak (most beginners get confused with
the control reversal which happens when an airplane is travelling towards, rather
than away, from the pilot). He kept the glider into the wind, which was beginning
to pick up by that time, until it got a bit too far upwind, then turned around
and brought the glider down about 50 yards away. The glider pitched up just before
touchdown (probably due to ground effect) and stalled into the ground, but not
too severely. Fight time was 1:30, same as my D12-3 flight.

So, we give the Arcie "two thumbs up!". It boosted almost flawlessly, separation
and glide initiation were perfect, and control was very easy, even for a total
beginner. Glide times were not what I had seen other Arcie pilots get, but this
is probably because I'm using a heavier receiver than the recommended Hitec
'feather' RX.

Some recommendations for others thinking about the Arcie:

1. Check your lateral balance! I've heard one other Arcie builder who had
one wing heavier than the other, besides me. Even with closely matched
wood, its always a good idea to check.

2. Make SURE your servo arms can't travel past the end of the elevon control
horns, or you'll get them caught beneath/against them, resulting in an
uncontrollable turn/spin.

3. If your Arcie has a tendancy to turn, add some trim weight to one wingtip
instead of relying on trim adjustment, provided your servo arms are aligned
perpendicularly. Otherwise you may end up with problem #2 above. If you
make in-flight trim adjustments anyway, just be wary of overdoing it.

4. I saw another Arcie go up yesterday, that got tangled with the chute. I'm
going to replace my chute with a streamer, which ought to reduce the chances
of this happening to me. The power pod is plenty robust, and I think even
the small chute provided is overkill - a large streamer ought to do nicely.

5. The E9-4 flight left some exhaust marks on the top of the glider wing - I
wouldn't call it 'scorching', but it's probable that too many flights like
this one might cook the tape hinges near the fuselage, and possibly the wood
too. It would be a good idea to protect the wood here, either with some
stick-on foil tape, or a coat of epoxy. Putting some sacrificial masking tape
over the strapping tape hinges should help to protect them from heat damage.
Also, run your antenna wire along the BOTTOM of the fuselage stick, so it is
protected from the exhaust too.

6. After setting up for launch, always do a double-check to make sure the igniter
clips will fall away from the tail surfaces, and that the antenna wire falls
free and won't get caught on anything as it leaves the pad. A bit of tape and
a 1/4" dowel can make a handy portable "umbilical" support for the igniter
leads, so they drop away from the glider at launch.



-Vince P.
 
excellent report vince...! looks like Rob has himself a winner here.....

everybody must do rc gliders!......
 
Wish I could've been there to see it but was out of town. I should be at the next NOVAAR launch on 9/18 with my Arcie (amongst other things).
 
I wish I could make it to NOVAAR's September launch (you folks have a FANTASTIC field!), but alas I have family in town that weekend, so I won't be able to make it.

Maelstrom - I just missed meeting you, Don Brown gave me the URL from your card and I checked out your gallery earlier. Nice photography! You might have seen me there, I was the one with the bee-like Arcie, the Vostok, and the Saturn V.
 
I did see the Vostok launch, I was checking in my Mustang. It looks like you did a great job on that one, good flight too.
 
Quick question for you Arcie builders. The upward motion of my left aileron is restricted by its control horn hitting the servo mount. Is this normal?
 
Originally posted by illini868891
Quick question for you Arcie builders. The upward motion of my left aileron is restricted by its control horn hitting the servo mount. Is this normal?

illini-

No, it should clear the servo mount. I seem to remember that mine rubbed against the servo mount barely too, I solved this by moving the aileron just a wee bit (1/8") more outboard. I had to trim off the tip 1/8" of the aileron to do this.

This is weird - I posted a follow-up flight report Saturday, it seems to have disappeared. Moderators?

Anyway, I had an unbelievable 3:30 flight Saturday, hooking into a thermal over a school parking lot where I fly RC gliders frequently. The second flight wasn't so good though - the glider got tangled with the booster, fell rather hard, damaging the fuselage around the RX and battery mount. Nothing unrepairable, though. I am putting the chute back on the booster (I had switched to a streamer), because #1 I had no tangles out of 3 flights with it, and #2 with a chute dangling instead of a streamer, the damage may have been less severe.
 
Okay, thanks. I fixed it by trimming off about half the width of the side of the servo mount. The side doesn't seem to have any purpose anyway.

The glider is finished, but balance is nose heavy with CG ~1/2" off - that's with battery pack as far aft as possible. Will have to add some clay to the tail to make it balance.

I saw your report somewhere about your 3:30 flight....no idea what happened to it. Thanks for the tip on the chute...I was leaning toward replacing it with a streamer.
 
Having NO experience with the Arcie, or any glider, but:

would packing the chute tighter help? This would make the lines stretch out slower, and give the glider more time to move away. possible?
 
Curious to know what everyone's Arcie weighs (glider only, not booster). Mine is 3.6 oz. with Hitec Feather Rx, HS-55 servo, and 50 mAh battery pack installed. Had to add thick clay "fillets" to each of the vertical stabs to balance.
 
Originally posted by Justin Horne
Having NO experience with the Arcie, or any glider, but:

would packing the chute tighter help? This would make the lines stretch out slower, and give the glider more time to move away. possible?

No, wouldn't have helped at all. The shock cord wrapped around one wing, and it would have made no difference if a chute was attached, or a streamer (which is in fact what I was using at the time).

A fellow NARHAMS member suggested a split-pod design, which comes down in two parts (no shock cord connecting the two pieces), which might be a good idea.
 
Originally posted by illini868891
Curious to know what everyone's Arcie weighs (glider only, not booster). Mine is 3.6 oz. with Hitec Feather Rx, HS-55 servo, and 50 mAh battery pack installed. Had to add thick clay "fillets" to each of the vertical stabs to balance.

Mine comes to 108g, 3.8 ounces, "all-up" with balancing weight and all radio gear and slip cover. I'm using the Hitec 555 receiver which is a little heavier than the Feather, so otherwise we'd probably be dead equal.

I'll probably increase that a couple of grams after repairs.:D

p.s. when trimmed right, the Arcie signals lift REALLY well. If your nose pitches up, you've just entered an updraft - plunge in and start circling! If one wing lifts, you've got an updraft on that side - continue turning in the direction it pitched you, until you've completed 3/4 of a complete circle, and that should plunge you head-on into the thermal. Note that the area I was in was over a blacktop parking lot which produces strong thermals - garden-variety thermals may not have as dramatic an effect. It's still a rather heavy glider for its size. If I'd have been flying a light HLG, I'd have ridden that thermal up into the clouds.:D
 
Originally posted by vjp
p.s. when trimmed right, the Arcie signals lift REALLY well. If your nose pitches up, you've just entered an updraft - plunge in and start circling! If one wing lifts, you've got an updraft on that side - continue turning in the direction it pitched you, until you've completed 3/4 of a complete circle, and that should plunge you head-on into the thermal. Note that the area I was in was over a blacktop parking lot which produces strong thermals - garden-variety thermals may not have as dramatic an effect. It's still a rather heavy glider for its size. If I'd have been flying a light HLG, I'd have ridden that thermal up into the clouds.:D

Looking forward to thermal hunting. I earned an FAA sailplane rating in grad school. Central Illinois was pretty lousy for thermals (except for that one day when I rode a 2000' tow to 10,000'...yeee haaaaa!), but I usually found my lift near blacktop just like you did. This is gonna be fun!
 
Okay, my Arcie II is officially finished now that I've tied the shock cord to the nose. Here's my Reader's Digest review of building the Arcie.

Overall, the Arcie is a lot like any other Edmonds kit. If you've not built an Edmonds kit, let me explain. The parts in an Edmonds kit are laser cut, typically fit perfectly with minimal sanding, and assembly requires only a few hours. There is usually minimal trimming required since the kits are designed with all incidence angles built in. However, the price for this simplicity is a glider with somewhat lower performance than you'd see in your average competition bird. Not a great sacrifice for the fun to be had from an Edmonds kit.

As I said, the Arcie is a lot like any other Edmonds kit...laser cut parts that assemble in an afternoon. Only a few key differences. First, the Arcie has hinged control surfaces - ailerons - which require you to sand a bevel in the trailing edge of the main wing. Also, you'll want to round out the leading edge of the main wing. No big deal, but most Edmonds kits don't require even that much sanding. Another key difference is that the fuselage has cutouts in it for installing the R/C gear. I encountered a minor problem when gluing the main wing to the fuselage. Before gluing on the wing, you are to glue a servo mount onto the fuselage which, as the name suggests, will serve as the place where you will screw on the servo. However, when I test fit the wing in place I noticed that the control horn on one of the ailerons had its motion restricted by the side of the servo mount. It didn't impact the other control horn because the servo mount has only one side. Earlier in this thread you see my question regarding this. Bottom line is that the servo mount doesn't even need the side piece that sticks out. Once glued in place you can trim the side back or even completely off. The servo mounts to the fore and aft pieces, not the side. Finally, once the glider was completed (really no time at all) and the radio gear was mounted, the final task was to balance the glider. The instructions suggest that balance can be achieved simply by moving the battery pack fore or aft as necessary in the rather long battery pack slot in order to achieve balance. However, even with my battery pack as far aft as possible my CG was too far forward by about 1/2". This could only be fixed by applying rather thick clay fillets in the joints between the horizontal stab and the two vertical stabs. Total weight of my Arcie II with radio gear and clay fillets (not including booster) is 3.6 ounces.

All in all, in spite of the anomalies listed above building the Arcie is still incredibly straightforward. The only reason the issues with the servo mount and clay fillets stand out at all is because the rest of the build is so flawless. First flight will be in a couple of weeks (weather permitting), but nobody should be deterred from buying an Arcie II for fear that they can't handle building an R/C glider. You'll not find it any easier than this.
 
illi-

Nice review. I had basically the same problems that you had, but compared to my experience building balsa built-up gliders, these 'issues' were so minor that I didn't even think they were worth mentioning. Coming from the other extreme (I've never built an Edmonds kit before) the Arcie II was almost ridiculously easy in comparison to RC kits.

I should have mentioned this before (or maybe I did, I think it was in my 'missing post' from last weekend), but when I moved the battery pack about 1/3" forward from the previous setting, I found the performance to be much better. I didn't check where this put the new CG, but I would think it would be between 1/8" and 1/4" forward of the old CG, which was right on the recommended 'diamond'-indicated points on the wing.

Glider pilot too, eh? Cool! I had a ride in one, once (Elmira, NY, about 1975) and it was really memorable. Never took flying lessons, though (still kicking self in tail over that!). So RC is as close as I get, for now anyway!
 
Originally posted by vjp
...the Arcie II was almost ridiculously easy in comparison to RC kits.

Exactly right. I've also built a few RC planes and gliders (hence the reason I had a transmitter laying around for the Arcie) and this was nothing compared to that. Heck, it was nothing compared to building most rockets as well. Bottom line is that there's probably nobody on this forum who can't build this one.

Thanks for the tip on the CG...I'd *love* to remove some of that clay from the tail and may do so now after the first flight.
 
Originally posted by illini868891
FYI: Vertical Force Rocketry (TRF's maelstrom) has the Arcie II on sale for only $27.99. That's $7 less than the going rate.

Awesome! Any idea what their shipping runs?

I have to pick up another boost pod, mine got lost at today's NARHAMS launch, deep in the thickets behind the launch area. That was the second flight, only 90 seconds or so. The first flight, though, I busted last week's record! I had a 4 minute+ flight (I estimate about 4:10) on a D12-3... and that's after repairs from last weekend's mishap! AND under cloudy skies! I think there was some ridge lift created by the tree line behind us. Later, Jim Filler had a reeeeeally long flight too on his Arcie, on an E9-4. Nobody was timing, but it seemed like almost 5 minutes.

Jim Filler's second flight of the day had a separation of the nose cone/chute from the boost pod. The boost pod came in hot - tail-first and stable, meaning it hit hard and accordioned. Lesson learned: I'll put small finlets on the tail end of my next boost pod, so that if a separation occurs at least it won't come in hot.

Also, when performing my repairs from last weekend's "red baron" crash, it turned out I was missing more balsa than I thought. I had to replace some missing pieces and cut out 1/64" birch plywood doublers to reinforce the fuselage repairs. Which leads me to my next "pro tip" for the Arcie...

The Arcie II's fuselage has some weak areas around the forward fuselage area, namely around the cutout areas for the receiver and the battery pack. The grain runs longitudinally, which means that the RX and battery cutouts can break free from the main fuse in the event of a crash or hard landing, since these areas are joined to the main fuse across the grain of the balsa. I would recommend that these areas be reinforced by gluing some 1/64" ply or similar veneer material across these regions. This will result in a significantly stronger structure here, with an insignificant increase in weight. In fact, it would be great if Edmond's would add precision-fit, laser-cut 1/64" ply doublers to sandwich this whole section of the fuse - it would strengthen this area by several orders of magnitude. This might be cost-prohibitive, however, from a manufacturers point of view - but nevertheless I suggest experienced Arcie-II builders consider this option, to reinforce this one otherwise delicate area.
 
Shipping is $5. But I can usually hand deliver for $0 to NOVAAR sport launches at Great Meadow since I normally try to attend all of them.
 
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