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Arcie II RC Boost Glider from Arkansas [Edmonds]

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Crawf56

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As my assault on the Rocket Boosted Gliders forum continues........:eyeroll:

The next Act of Visual Documentation is the Arcie II radio control boost glider from Edmonds. This is another kit that is no longer in production.

m_IMG_0646.jpg

Using a D12-3 motor, the Booster Tube (orange w/ black nose) separates from the glider. I used a streamer for booster recovery.
 

Crawf56

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I added an elevator and servo:

m_IMG_0651.jpg m_IMG_0652.jpg

The model is designed to be aileron only.
 

aerostadt

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Has this flown and how well? This is quite a bit heavier than the stock kit.
 

KevinM

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Yes, yes! Please add a "flight report" to this Act.
(I'm also curious to hear about the effectivity of the elevator, and the weight gain it caused.)

I'm on my second ARCIE II, and have on more than one occasion wondered about what a 2-channel version might be like.
 

Crawf56

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My Arcie II has a couple of flights on it. I would describe it's flight characteristics as "ok".

So, let's define "ok" - Better than an Estes T25 (which has a glide somewhat like the Space Shuttle), not as good as a typical RC glider (like a "Gentle Lady" by Carl Goldberg).

Note that I have the elevator servo in front of the wing, which means it is FORWARD of the Center of Gravity [CG]. You have to add weight to the nose anyway, so there is not a big weight penalty for adding the elevator servo. This model needed a lot of weight up front to get the CG right; I initially used four AAA batteries for power, because it gave the needed nose weight!

I didn't fly my Arcie very much because of the booster pod. I tend to spend more time at the RC airplane field, and there are enough trees close by to cause concern for anything parachuting down. I also plan to 'map' booster decent characteristics, so I may do some Arcie flights at the RC field.
 

burkefj

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You have been busy lately, you remind me of someone:) I wonder if a spektrum brick would be a good alternative for a very light weight conversion...

Frank
 

kjohnson

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The Arcie-II was designed to use a feather rx and a little 4cell battery. I guess you could add a servo and a smaller cell and get an elevator, but the model was designed to let you have some control over the direction, rather than direction and pitch as a super simple entry level model.

Rob designed another model with the ability to drop the ailerons together to control pitch, that used two servos. That may have been a Contest Craft kit (more advanced than Edmonds Aerospace), or maybe just a prototype that we built at a club meeting though.

The original Arcie was a larger and more complicated model, with a built up wing and elevator/ailerons for control. Neat thing about that wing is you glued the ribs to the lower skin angled in a semi-geodesic pattern /\/\/\/\/\/\| and then glued the top skin on.

kj
 

Crawf56

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burkefj - Good to find people as crazy as me. Yes, I think you are right; current [2017] micro components would work well.

kjohnson - Yeah, I think I kind of "missed the boat" when I first built this model in.......2011(?). Being in an RC airplane state of mind, I thought "silly rocketeers, it needs an elevator!" Well, no it doesn't.

I plan to keep this model "as is" for this season, but sometime in the future (late 2017?) I plan to rework this model and eliminate weight (i.e., elevator). Maybe a micro system with dual aileron servos located farther forward.

Much to learn, I still have.
 

KevinM

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burkefj - Good to find people as crazy as me. Yes, I think you are right; current [2017] micro components would work well.
I went with some updated equipement on mine, but I didn't push it too much. I stuck with a servo that was true to the original design so I didn't have to worry about shimming a smaller one to the right height, but did go with a lighter (Berg 4L) Rx and single cell 200mAh poly battery. Mine comes in at 93g even with the paint/sealer and no nose weight was required.

DSCN3662.jpg

DSCN3664.jpg

kjohnson - Yeah, I think I kind of "missed the boat" when I first built this model in.......2011(?). Being in an RC airplane state of mind, I thought "silly rocketeers, it needs an elevator!" Well, no it doesn't.
I keep going back and forth on this one - I agree that it doesn't need one, but I'm too used to having one. But every time I get close to trying to put one on though I remind myself that the beauty of this design is it's simplicity. (As kjohnson pointed out.)
 

TangoJuliet

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Is this design available as a plan set? Could someone share a plan set for both versions the Arcie II and the bigger Arcie? I'm also an R/C modeler and would like to tackle one of these.
 

aerostadt

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I read the reviews back on post #11 of this thread and it looks like a lot of users have had success with this model. I was thinking of making this model into a boost-glider, but it looks like many users have good flights. I saw a good flight at Hellfire about 2 or 3 years ago. I thought I had the model balanced according to the directions. Nevertheless, my flights tended to do a steep spiral towards the ground with no recovery. Also, it seemed that I could not get a good engagement of the servo arms with the model's wooden control horns to effect a good deflection of the ailerons. What am I doing wrong?
 

Crawf56

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KevinM - Very nice model. Notice how we paint the booster a bright color so we can find it. :cool:

TangoJuliet - When I bought the kit, there were instructions but no plans. I really suggest you check out Dynasoar Rocketry.

aerostadt - If you look carefully at my Post #3, you can see that I used Micro Control Horns and Connecting Rods to connect the ailerons to the servo.
 

KevinM

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[snip] Nevertheless, my flights tended to do a steep spiral towards the ground with no recovery. Also, it seemed that I could not get a good engagement of the servo arms with the model's wooden control horns to effect a good deflection of the ailerons. What am I doing wrong?
That can be any of a couple of things - perhaps one wing was a little heavier than the other, or one aileron is drooped a little more than the other with no input...

It can definitely take a little tweaking to get the stock ailerons to work right, but there's an elegance in the mechanism design that I didn't want to mess with. I wound up making card stock shims that I CA'd to the underside of the aileron horns to balance the throws.
 

kjohnson

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There definitely were some kits that had one wing made of slightly heavier balsa, so this is not an uncommon issue.

If I remember from talking to Rob, the servo wasn't directly connected to the ailerons to allow them to move under boost, making it so the pod didn't have to be longer. If for some reason, your servo isn't bumping up the aileron enough for turning, you can glue a little piece of balsa to the horn to make it taller.

kj
 

mr_matt

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My Arcie II glider, with battery [3.7v, 1s Lipo of 350 mAh] comes out to 150 grams, which is about 5.3 oz.

From some reviews, the glider comes in at 3.5 oz.
https://www.rocketreviews.com/edmonds-aerospace-arcie-ii--by-bob-cox.html

Ouch. Note that I have not timed my flights. Will try to next time.
I did one with elevator and aileron, it came out to be 2.2 ounces (<63 grams) ready to fly.

I shredded it on a D12 I think? It flew OK maybe 10 flights.

I did a FlatCat on 2 channels as well. It flies "OK"

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?16918-Arcie-II-on-3-Channels
 

Crawf56

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I put a motor hook on my boost pod:

m_IMG_0653.jpg m_IMG_0656.jpg

EDIT: I put three slots in the tube. I straightened out the hook at one end, then passed it through the slots. I then re-bent the top of the hook, for it to fit through the top slot and hold the motor. I then put tape over the top of all this to help hold it in place.
 
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iqsy59

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Thank you for posting this!

Cheers,
Michael
 

Crawf56

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Regarding my Arcie II, I decided I could greatly improve it. So I stripped it down, and I plan to move the aileron servo forward of the CG:

m_IMG_1421.jpg m_IMG_1422.jpg

So, what is the plan:

1) Use a smaller receiver, and move it forward.

2) Move the aileron servo forward.

See what this does for my weight.
 

Crawf56

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I love it when a plan comes together.

OK, here is a receiver comparison:

m_IMG_1423.jpg

New (to the Arcie) Futaba receiver on the left; previous Tactic servo. The Futaba is 7/8" wide, while the tactic is 1" wide. Which means the Futaba fits in the body tube!!! And can thus be mounted forward.

Here ya go:

m_IMG_1426.jpg
 

Crawf56

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So, my flight weight has gone from 150 grams to 133 grams. (5.3 oz. to 4.7 oz.)

Not as good as I had hoped, but an improvement. :flyingpig:
 

Crawf56

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Looking at the pics in post #24.

Should have flipped my aileron servo........:facepalm:
 

aerostadt

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I like your servo arm attachment system back in post #24. I need to do something like this, too, as I mentioned before. I just need the time to come back to this project. Are you paying any attention to the original balance point test that was described in the original instructions?
 

Crawf56

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I like your servo arm attachment system back in post #24. I need to do something like this, too, as I mentioned before. I just need the time to come back to this project. Are you paying any attention to the original balance point test that was described in the original instructions?
The original balance point for the glider [the Center of Gravity, or "CG"] is extremely important; and I am still following it.

Please note that the manner in which I re-installed my aileron servo is a HUGE SCREW-UP. :blush:

Originally, the servo was oriented just behind the CG, with the servo arms against the wing. This way, when the glider lands, the servo arms are away from the ground.

I moved the aileron servo forward of the CG to reduce the amount of weight needed to properly balance the model. (My Arcie glider is tail-heavy, and I added weights to the nose for proper balance. Any component that gets moved closer to the nose reduces the nose weight that I need, thus allowing the glider to be lighter.)

But the way I installed my aileron servo on the 'second try' meant that the servo arms would hit the ground when I landed......and likely break them. :mad:

So, I am 'flipping' the aileron servo to protect the servo arms. More pics to come......
 
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