Applying CA Glue

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gladiator1332

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I am building a cardstock X-33 Venturestar and want to apply CA glue to make the model hard and rigid. I have the part sheets, but what is the process of applying the glue? Do I build the model first and then soak it with CA? Also how do I apply the CA...with a brush?
Also with CA do you recommend wearing a mask, saftey glasses, and gloves? Lots of warnings on the bottle of eye damage and skin being fused together.

Thanks
 

KenParker

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PLEASE - be very careful with CA, particularly if it is the regular kind of CA. "Odorless" CA is somewhat safer to work with. Odorless CA can also be used on most styrofoams. Regular CA will melt styrofoam.

Yes, I would wear all the safety gear. Preferably, use it only in a well ventilated area. ESPECIALLY if you are going to be using larger quantities, which you will be if you are coating parts with CA.

If you are using thin CA, and it is of good quality, you would never get away with using a brush. As soon as you paused the brush, it would bind to the paper. The bristles of the brush would bind together.

I would just hold the paper vertically, and let the CA run along the surface. If you feed the CA out slowly from the bottle tip, you can learn to control the spread of the CA.

Be aware of one thing: While the CA can make the paper stronger, it *can* make it very brittle as well. You might want to take a sample of the paper, coat it with CA, then determine whether it is really stronger that way. You might find that it is actually more prone to breakage from the brittleness.

JMHO. Others may have differing opinions. Consult your doctor before starting any exercise program.
 

eugenefl

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Originally posted by gladiator1332
So I should coat the parts sheet before building the model?
I don't know that coating first would be best although some might disagree. I typically coat afterwards. For instance, if I'm coating fins, I typically run a thick line of CyA parallel to the body tube and closest to the root edge. I then spread away from the rocket with a piece of cardstock or business card.

Careful with those fumes and the glue itself! :eek:
 

KenParker

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Originally posted by gladiator1332
So I should coat the parts sheet before building the model?
Ooops, sorry - forgot about that part. Yeah, I agree with eugenefl - coat the parts AFTER you build.
 

aksarben10

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The long and the short if it is; Great product but be very careful with the fumes. People can become sensitive to them just as with epoxy and once that happens each exposure tends to have stronger and stronger adverse reactions.


Superglue - Synthetic Glue
Superglue or Krazy Glue is a substance called cyanoacrylate that was discovered by Dr. Harry Coover while working for Kodak Research Laboratories to develop an optically clear plastic for gunsights in 1942. Coover rejected cyanoacrylate because it was too sticky.

In 1951, cyanoacrylate was rediscovered by Coover and Dr Fred Joyner. Coover was now supervising research at the Eastman Company in Tennessee. Coover and Joyner were researching a heat-resistant acrylate polymer for jet canopies when Joyner spread a film of ethyl cyanoacrylate between refractometer prisms and discovered that the prisms were glued together.

Coover finally realized that cyanoacrylate was a useful product and in 1958 the Eastman compound #910 was marketed and later packaged as superglue.

It also has a long history in the medical field for wound closure.


Borrowed Text from Surelok's Superglue web site.

LIQUID EFFECTS:

EYE CONTACT: Cyanoacrylate adhesives are eye irritants and tissue bonders. Therefore, care, including the use of goggles, should be taken to prevent eye contact. In the event of eye contact, the eyes should be copiously flushed with water and medical aid sought immediately. If eyelids are bonded closed, only a qualified physician should attempt to separate them. In case of bonding corneal surface, forced separation is not recommended. Allow the eye to remain closed and the bond to separate naturally, which generally will occur within a few days.

SKIN CONTACT: Cyanoacrylate adhesives, while relatively non-toxic, are mild irritants to the skin. The Acute Dermal LD50 is >2000 mg/kg. However, strong bonds will quickly form between adjacent skin surfaces, e.g. fingers. These may be separated relatively easily by soaking the bonded area in warm, soapy water for several minutes and then gently peeling the bond. Alternatively, a dull instrument such as a thin wire or a table knife can be forced through the bond. With appropriate caution, solvents such as acetone or nail polish remover can be used effectively.

When skin contact is over a large area, the area should be flushed with large amounts of water. A soaking wet cloth can be used to wipe off excess adhesive. If the adhesive has soaked through clothing, flush the involved area with water. If the cloth has bonded to the skin, the removal of the bonded clothing without these precautions might result in skin damage. Cured adhesive will flake from the skin within a day or so or can be removed by treatment or by soaking with hot, soapy water.

ORAL CONTACT: Cyanoacrylates are relatively non-toxic materials (Acute Oral LD50 >5000 mg/kg). However, rapid polymerization (hardening) of the adhesive will take place in contact with the surfaces of the mouth. The mouth should be flushed copiously with water and medical aid should be sought immediately. Lips, if bonded, can be gently peeled apart, preferably with the aid of hot water or solvent.

VAPOR EFFECTS:

EYES: Alkyl cyanoacrylate vapors are lachrymatory (tear producing) and can cause eye irritation and tearing in poorly ventilated areas.

MUCOUS MEMBRANES: Mucous surfaces can become irritated by prolonged exposure to cyanoacrylate vapors in poorly ventilated areas. Vapor irritation to the eyes and mucous membranes will be most noticeable under conditions of low relative humidity.

VAPOR CONTROL RECOMMENDATIONS:

* Use adequate ventilation. Remove adhesive vapors with suitable exhaust ducting. Since cyanoacrylate vapors are heavier than air, place exhaust intake below work area. Activated charcoal filters using an acidic charcoal have been found effective in removing vapors from effluent air.

* Avoid use of excess adhesive. Excess adhesive outside of bond area will increase level of vapors.

* Assemble parts as quickly as possible. Long open times will increase level of vapors.

VII. PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE:
Health hazard rating is 2, Slightly hazardous. Fire hazard is 2, Flash point above 100 ° F not exceeding 200. Reactivity rating is 1, Unstable if heated.

Provide adequate ventilation in area of usage. When possible this should be achieved by the use of local exhaust ventilation and good general ventilation. Vapors are heavier than air, therefore, downward ventilation should be used. When handling cyanoacrylate adhesives, goggles or safety glasses should always be worn. Polyethylene gloves should be used to protect the hands. CAUTION: Do not use rubber or cloth gloves. Rubber gloves will bond when brought in contact with the adhesive and porous cotton gloves will absorb the adhesive and bond the gloves to the skin.

Store in original container below 40° F for prolonged shelf life.

In the event of small spills, material may be wiped up with a soaking wet cloth and the area cleaned with solvent. When large quantities of cyanoacrylate adhesive are accidentally spilled, the area should be flooded with water which will cause the liquid cyanoacrylate to cure. The cured material can then be scraped from the surface. It may then be incinerated observing all State, Federal and local anti-pollution and waste disposal regulations.

VIII. CONTROL MEASURES:
Transport: This product is not regulated for shipping purposes.

Other: Respiratory protection is not normally necessary unless product is used in enclosed area of poor ventilation or individual has a history of chronic respiratory disease. Local exhaust is recommended. Protective gloves are recommended during use (See section VII above). Always wash hands thoroughly after use.
 

TheRadiator

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What kind of CA is best suited for painting balsa fins? I painted some Handibond thin CA on a Launch Pad SAAB 372, but it warped the first fin that I painted. I left the rest alone after that. The directions recommend that you paint the balsa fins with CA in order to strengthen them. However, I didn't want a bunch of warped fins on a big ol' TLP model. Any ideas anyone?
 

powderburner

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What was the name of that other wood-finishing product, the stuff that came in a bottle and people here on TRF were saying was good for soaking balsa fins? It acts kind of like thin epoxy but is easier to work with?
Would that be good for soaking paper/cardstock?
 

Micromeister

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Only After construction of the areoshroud.
All the advise on ventilation is important, a small fan behind or beside you blowing the vapors away in the direction of the vent or open window works well for me. Zip has a hand lotion barrier that works really well and a Debonder for those unfortunate Oop's with the finger in way:D I haven't used the oderless..but I'll be looking for it, I use rubber gloves over the barrier cream and dip cotton balls wrapped around bamboo skewers as a brush. long VCR wooden stick Q-tips for smaller or tight areas. Set the model up in such a way that no part of the shroud or its edges are in contact with anything. wax paper under the model to catch any dripings, sponge on the Ca, then let it alone to dry. try to make only a single pass with the Ca mop on each area. I like Med CA for this process it doesn't penetrate quite as quickly but allows a little more time to get the coverage.
hope this helps
The 6" tail cone on this Styx SSN2 model was created with light card stock and med CA. Note the fins are attached directly to the CA soaked shourd without TTW tabs. This model has flown about 10 times without damage.
 

Stymye

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I've never tried anything beyond thin cya for this technique .
I'll have to try the Medium next time .....thanks for the tip Micro !
 

gladiator1332

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Polyethylene gloves should be used to protect the hands. CAUTION: Do not use rubber or cloth gloves. Rubber gloves will bond when brought in contact with the adhesive and porous cotton gloves will absorb the adhesive and bond the gloves to the skin.
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Where can I get Polyethylene gloves?
 

KenParker

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I have a Northern Hardware store nearby, and it carries all different kinds of gloves - latex, nitrile, polypropylene, etc. Most of them come in bulk containers of 25 pairs.
 

BlueNinja

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aksarben-

Weird, i thought the stuff was highly toxic. Cyano implied cyanide. Does it, in fact, have cyanide in it?
 

wyldbill

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Originally posted by Blue_Ninja_150
Weird, i thought the stuff was highly toxic. Cyano implied cyanide. Does it, in fact, have cyanide in it?
Cyano implies a Nitrogen Carbon bond. "Cyanide" is actually a "salt" of cyanide, usually Hydrogen Cyanide, Potassium Cyanide or Sodium Cyanide (HCN,KCN and NaCN respectively). In this simplest form the CN combo is extremely posionous, in larger molecules, (like CA) it may or may not be. Small differences in chemical structure can have widely differing impact of biochemical systems. Ethanol ( (CH3)2OH ) is found in beer and when ingested is a mild depressant. It's little brother Methanol (CH3OH) can/will blind you and cause other neurological problems.

-bill
 

carson

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Can you get a hard surface from brushing on some thin epoxy?
It seems alot easier and safer.
 

hokkyokusei

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Originally posted by Carson
Can you get a hard surface from brushing on some thin epoxy?
It seems alot easier and safer.
Not nearly as strong in my experience.
 
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