Apple Airtag, Recovery Locator?

[SR71LGT]

Apple introduced an Airtag key fob locator a month or two ago, has anyone tried this as a rocket locator?

 

[cfoster3448]

Curious myself. This would be a very cheap alternative to other GPS locator systems that are available today.

 

[Arpak]

This would only work if you were in Bluetooth range or someone with an IPhone was within Bluetooth range of it.

 

[neil_w]

This would only work if you were in Bluetooth range or someone with an IPhone was within Bluetooth range of it.

This.

Airtags are not suitable for tracking rockets out in the wilderness. The only ways they could be useful are:
1) help you find the rocket after you get close to it (within 30 ft or so). This is actually slightly tempting; in some farms conditions you can't see the rocket until you're right on top of it. On the other hand, I don't know if the UWB signal (which enables precision finding) can carry through cornstalks and the like.
2) Give you a signal if someone with an iPhone chances upon your rocket sometime after you lost it.

 

[Funkworks]

Thanks for the news. I just ordered one. Hopefully I'll get to lauch it this summer and post about how suitable it is for rocketry. If it isn't I can also use it like a normal person would. It's 11 grams so there's that.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-airtag/airtag

 

[kuririn]

This would only work if you were in Bluetooth range or someone with an IPhone was within Bluetooth range of it.

Yup. Similar to Tile, which came out a few years ago.
Very limited compared to GPS.
With Tile, even if you get a hit it will only give you a location within several feet on the map.
Not a pinpoint location.
Good thing about Tile is you can trigger an audible alert on the Tile from your phone.
Big help if you lost it in tall grass but you know the general location.
Don't know if that's a feature on Airtag.
PS The Tile network includes iOS and Android devices, not just iphones.

 

[Arpak]

Yup. Similar to Tile, which came out a few years ago.
Very limited compared to GPS.
With Tile, even if you get a hit it will only give you a location within several feet on the map.
Not a pinpoint location.
Good thing about Tile is you can trigger an audible alert on the Tile from your phone.
Big help if you lost it in tall grass but you know the general location.
Don't know if that's a feature on Airtag.
PS The Tile network includes iOS and Android devices, not just iphones.

Airtag is actually a slightly more advanced tile, it can do everything tile does but also taps into the iPhone ecosystem (anyone with an IPhone can detect your tag for you), as well as having Ultra Wide Band to give you a very pinpoint location, even a bearing on your phone. It's very cool stuff.

I use Android though

 

[cwbullet]

Not a good time for rocket recovery and I am an Apple fan.

 

[SR71LGT]

Sounds like a maybe!, next launch we’ll give it a test!
And then add an update,
Great info, thank you all!

 

[BBB]

Super, I look forward to the report from you next launch!

 

[cfoster3448]

Good luck! Am anxious to hear the final results.

 

[ksaves2]

For close in recovery, a noisemaker on the harness cannot be beat. Just tape in the battery and one is in great shape. Just get an "n" battery holder and piezo and flashing LED. Can epoxy the piezo and LED on the ends and seal with shrink wrap. I think the plans are still out there. Kurt

O.K. Here's the link for an aural beeper: https://www.jbgizmo.com/page6.html

If a B/T locator is the only device on the rocket, the chance for and out of sight recovery is nil if one doesn't get a visual on the way in. It will get a 30 foot radius of indication though but I beg to differ that one's ears are so much better for determining tracking aurally than with any B/T tracker. I always add a beeper to my high-fliers even if flying with RDF or GPS trackers. Can't beat sound in tall grass or corn. RDF or GPS will get one within earshot and the beeper will let one's ears zero in.

 

[dhbarr]

A solid argument for a visual flasher is that at night it should be extremely visible from a long way off.

 

[Philip Tiberius D.]

A solid argument for a visual flasher is that at night it should be extremely visible from a long way off.

Aching to try a night launch...

 

[FredA]

It will get a 30 foot radius of indication though but I beg to differ that one's ears are so much better for determining tracking aurally than with any B/T tracker.

Not in the high sage of the Oregon desert. You are easily fooled by sound. Lights for night or radio beacon for RDF'ing is the only way to find rockets. Warblers/beepers really don't help......we tried everything....OROC is Beeline country.

 

[neil_w]

If a B/T locator is the only device on the rocket, the chance for and out of sight recovery is nil if one doesn't get a visual on the way in. It will get a 30 foot radius of indication though but I beg to differ that one's ears are so much better for determining tracking aurally than with any B/T tracker. I always add a beeper to my high-fliers even if flying with RDF or GPS trackers. Can't beat sound in tall grass or corn. RDF or GPS will get one within earshot and the beeper will let one's ears zero in.

Once within the 30ft the Airtags will give you precision Marco Polo-like directional guidance. So I would say that if (and that's a mighty big if) you can get within 30' of the rocket, then the Airtags will take you the rest of the way more effectively than a beeper (one more if: that there aren't obstructions that get in the way of the UWB precision finding function).

 

[BABAR]

Once within the 30ft the Airtags will give you precision Marco Polo-like directional guidance. So I would say that if (and that's a mighty big if) you can get within 30' of the rocket, then the Airtags will take you the rest of the way more effectively than a beeper (one more if: that there aren't obstructions that get in the way of the UWB precision finding function).

So you put your iPhone on a drone, and fly a search pattern,......

 

[SR71LGT]

So you put your iPhone on a drone, and fly a search pattern,......

Bam!!, great suggestion.

 

[BABAR]

Bam!!, great suggestion.

I do have occasional lucid intervals......

 

[kuririn]

How do you read the screen of the iphone when it's on the drone?

 

[neil_w]

How do you read the screen of the iphone when it's on the drone?

Point the drone camera to the phone screen! View the video feed from another phone! This solution gets better and better!!!

Joking aside, I believe that this would not be necessary. What you would do (this is all hypothetical of course) is use a phone on the drone that is not the primary one the tag is registered to. When the drone phone "sees" the Airtag, it will phone home (drone phone phone's home) and report the location. So the registered phone (sitting safely in the rocketeers hands, hopefully) should get a GPS indication of where the Airtag is. That should be enough to get close to the rocket, and then precision locating can take you there the rest of the way.

Insert tons of caveats as needed.

 

[BABAR]

Point the drone camera to the phone screen! View the video feed from another phone! This solution gets better and better!!!

Joking aside, I believe that this would not be necessary. What you would do (this is all hypothetical of course) is use a phone on the drone that is not the primary one the tag is registered to. When the drone phone "sees" the Airtag, it will phone home (drone phone phone's home) and report the location. So the registered phone (sitting safely in the rocketeers hands, hopefully) should get a GPS indication of where the Airtag is. That should be enough to get close to the rocket, and then precision locating can take you there the rest of the way.

Insert tons of caveats as needed.

This

could use an old iPhone on the drone (less risk if lost), I assume perhaps incorrectly that the Bluetooth range is not significantly better with the new phones. Unfortunately I think you would still need an active cell phone account, but may be able to get a very inexpensive “low frills” account.

also, an older, smaller iPhone with a smaller battery may be just as effective (drone battery will likely fail before the cell phone) and be a lighter load on the drone.

are there any drones that also have a Bluetooth receiver that might work for this?

still, trying to cover a soybean field with 30 foot grid search pattern is no easy feat either.

update

hmmm, found this

https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/apple-airtag-tips
If you can't locate the tracker, there is an option in the Find My app to place it in Lost Mode and create a custom message to be displayed when your AirTag is found by another user. When they hold the AirTag near their phone, your message—like contact details—will appear on their device, and the Good Samaritan will hopefully get in touch. This will work on any device that has NFC enabled, meaning Android owners can help return lost AirTags, too.

So you may NEED have the drone phone screen ON and in field of view to get this to work.

re-edit

or not

From
https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/a36320416/apple-airtags-frequently-asked-questions-answers/Apple's AirTags and Tile's trackers are actually very similar. Both are tiny location-tracking gadgets that rely on a Bluetooth connection to work. When the tracker is in Bluetooth range (which is around 30 feet), you can open an app on your smartphone or tablet and quickly locate the tracker. When the tracker is not in Bluetooth range of your device, you can set to a "Lost" mode and it will then anonymously communicate with other people devices; when they come into Bluetooth range of the tracker you'll get a notification with your tracker's location without the other person ever have knowledge that they helped you find it.

 

[BABAR]

Also for low power rockets, 30 feet may be good enough. When I have been launching in a big field, often I can see exactly what direction the rocket landed. so I have a known location, Me, and a direction. What I am missing is distance. I pick a point in the FAR distance along that line and if possible I try to walk directly toward the point, scanning back and forth. I am not always successful, but I wouldn’t be surprised if in my failures I was within 30 feet right or left of the rocket, just couldn’t see it.

another reason to consider adding a long skinny shiny or fluorescent streamer to the shock cord in addition to a chute.

 

[neil_w]

Also for low power rockets, 30 feet may be good enough.

There are definitely situations where it's relatively easy to get within 30' of the rocket without realizing it or being able to find the rocket (soybeans, argh). In these situations, the Airtags could work great. Just walk in the general direction until your phone beeps (or whatever). If you can have two people walking about 50' apart, you could get over 100' of coverage, which is not bad.

Overall, for $30 a tag, it could be worth trying for LPR and maybe MPR. But no one should mistake this for a robust tracking solution.

 

[kuririn]

Some bluetooth devices have a 100 M. (328 ft.) range.
I know the Pro Tile has this.
Not sure if Airtag does.
Airtag is also able to emit an audible alert.

 

[ksaves2]

Some bluetooth devices have a 100 M. (328 ft.) range.
I know the Pro Tile has this.
Not sure if Airtag does.
Airtag is also able to emit an audible alert.

Ahhhhhhhh, remember that lying on the ground in a cornfield furrow is going to markedly decrease the range of any tracker via aural, Rf or bluetooth. The kicker here is what gives the best "final" tracking position. In that case, I vote for Rf as a GPS transmitter 25 to 50 feet up in the air can still get out the last known position that will get one within range of receiving the final lay or if a noisemaker is also on the harness, will hear where the rocket is and recover it quickly so they can fly another.
I don't think bluetooth has anything on Rf tracking, GPS or RDF.

The thing about RDF is getting the best signal strength on descent with the attenuator. If the rocket is relatively close, the attenuator needs to be adjusted to maintain directionality with the Yagi antenna. Sometimes, I'd point the Yagi with the attenuator off 180 degrees from the presumed rocket direction side to side and just when I'd hear a signal, I'd split the difference and swing around 180 degrees to what is likely the peak signal bearing.
I'd do modest swings to try to keep the rocket on peak signal when pointing at the rocket and when the signal is lost, (rocket is down on the ground out of range) I'd take a handheld Garmin GPS and lock the direction in so I had a datum line to walk to the rocket. Worked every time as long as the rocket didn't land in a tree, roof or lake or was blown along by wind.

Kurt

 

[Funkworks]

If you're going to fly a drone on a search pattern, you don't need an iPhone or an Airtag. Just get a drone with a good camera and don't paint your rocket in camo.

Camera-equipped drones can stream to a screen-equipped remote control (which can be an iPhone, or any other similar devices), or for a little more fun, a virtual reality head set.

 

[ksaves2]

Not in the high sage of the Oregon desert. You are easily fooled by sound. Lights for night or radio beacon for RDF'ing is the only way to find rockets. Warblers/beepers really don't help......we tried everything....OROC is Beeline country.

Fred,

I meant having a noisemaker on the harness along with RDF or GPS tracking. Get close in and a noisemaker can help with localization. A noisemaker alone would only be a bit helpful if one has a visual on the rocket descending. Lock a bearing in with a sight 'n go handheld GPS and hopefully walk the line until the rocket is seen (open field) or heard (tall grass or corn).

I understand some vegetation might muffle some beepers but if Rf or GPS tracking can get one close enough say 5 to 10 feet, one's ears might be able to take over and find the rocket.

I'm a proponent of RDF or GPS for flights that might be entirely sight unseen. Either a large enough motor or a small rocket can totally disappear for the entire flight. In that case, one has to depend upon chance getting it back or if attending a large launch, another flier returning your rocket to the LSO or lost and found table.

Kurt

 

[ksaves2]

If you're going to fly a drone on a search pattern, you don't need an iPhone or an Airtag. Just get a drone with a good camera and don't paint your rocket in camo.

Camera-equipped drones can stream to a screen-equipped remote control (which can be an iPhone, or any other similar devices), or for a little more fun, a virtual reality head set.

Probably VR headset would be best. Ever try looking at a screen in direct sunlight? I use a cut out cardboard box with the inside painted flat black in order to see the screens of my mapping GPS tracking receivers/tablets. Direct sunlight can be a bear to see a screen.

The APRS GPS trackers (ie. Beeline GPS along with other Ham Radio Products) can be interfaced directly to some Garmin handheld mapping GPS units. These devices are designed to be used in direct sunlight and are backlighted for night use. (Garmin 60Cs or 60CsX) Some Ham radio tracking programs can also be used for APRS tracking and can be hacked to use with the simplier NMEA GPS trackers. NMEA (Eggfinder and others) trackers just stream the NMEA position sentences to a receiver whereas APRS sends an information packet once every 5 seconds in that Ham Radio protocol. Both get the job done.
With tablets (Android,Winblows or Linux) a sun shield is necessary to see the screen on one's device.

If I don't want to mess with a sun shield, I'll fly a rocket with an APRS tracker in it and just use my Ham radio handi-talkie (Kenwood D72a) with a one wire interface to a Garmin 60Cs or CsX. Only two devices I have to carry. If it's a hard recovery ie. a totally sight unseen flight where I have to go to the last known position in hopes of receiving a signal, I'll take a Yagi antenna with me as it improves the ground footprint of the GPS tracker.
I know as I've tested it. Went on a recovery with the Yagi and just when I received a signal, I disconnected it and put the stock antenna on the radio. The signal disappeared. Put the Yagi back on and it returned.

Of course with RDF recovery a Yagi antenna with an attenuator is necessary. I mount my attenuator right on the Yagi and dial the potentiometer to the amount of attenuation to maintain the directionality.

Kurt

 

[FredA]

Kurt -- thought so too -- tried it a few times and everyone agreed it didn't help. Just made everyone look like fools standing and spinning with cupped ears......