# Apogee Zeyphr Finished

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#### JasonB

##### Member
LVL 1 Cert Launch Sat

it was a fun build ... small mishap installing one of the skull decals... missing a cheek bone lol. Will get it replaced.

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#### DMehalko

##### Well-Known Member
Nice work! Good luck on the flight

TRF Supporter
Clear skies!

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Nice rocket, and cool paint job!

I have a Zephyr in the cart at Apogee, but the shipping cost being 1/4 of the rocket's price is what's keeping it there for now...

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've always wondered if any Zephyr owners/fliers have had problems with the fins being damaged upon landing? Those point fins extending below the end of the body tube look like they would be vulnerable to breaking. I know the Zephyr's fins are pretty iconic/unique, but I could see myself trimming those points down a bit.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Nice rocket, and cool paint job!

I have a Zephyr in the cart at Apogee, but the shipping cost being 1/4 of the rocket's price is what's keeping it there for now...

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've always wondered if any Zephyr owners/fliers have had problems with the fins being damaged upon landing? Those point fins extending below the end of the body tube look like they would be vulnerable to breaking. I know the Zephyr's fins are pretty iconic/unique, but I could see myself trimming those points down a bit.
I have two Zephyrs - both modified for dual deploy - with lots of hard landings (had at least a couple flights with complete main parachute malfunctions - my fault, not the rocket). I have seen damage to the cardboard components and have replaced the nosecone in one of them, but the fins have never had so much as a dent. Very solid plywood fins.

The Zephyr is very reasonably priced for what you get. To mitigate the shipping hit, I recommend buying all the components you need for dual deploy when you buy the kit (payload bay, coupler, switch band, ebay sled, etc). That way, even if you just use the bird in single deploy mode for your level 1 cert, you can immediately build out the dual deploy, test it on a bunch of H & I impulse flights and then fly it with a J for Level 2 cert.

I do recommend upgrading the parachute that comes with the kit. It isn't bad, but there are vastly better options out there.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
LVL 1 Cert Launch Sat

it was a fun build ... small mishap installing one of the skull decals... missing a cheek bone lol. Will get it replaced.
Nice build, good luck!

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I have two Zephyrs - both modified for dual deploy - with lots of hard landings (had at least a couple flights with complete main parachute malfunctions - my fault, not the rocket). I have seen damage to the cardboard components and have replaced the nosecone in one of them, but the fins have never had so much as a dent. Very solid plywood fins.

The Zephyr is very reasonably priced for what you get. To mitigate the shipping hit, I recommend buying all the components you need for dual deploy when you buy the kit (payload bay, coupler, switch band, ebay sled, etc). That way, even if you just use the bird in single deploy mode for your level 1 cert, you can immediately build out the dual deploy, test it on a bunch of H & I impulse flights and then fly it with a J for Level 2 cert.

I do recommend upgrading the parachute that comes with the kit. It isn't bad, but there are vastly better options out there.
Thanks for the info! Good to know my worries about the fin ends are unfounded. I know I'll eventually pull the trigger on the Zephyr

Do you have any recommendations for good HPR parachutes? I have personal experience with Top Flite, but I've heard of Bama, LOC, Fruity, etc

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Do you have any recommendations for good HPR parachutes? I have personal experience with Top Flite, but I've heard of Bama, LOC, Fruity, etc

Having said that, I have tried many of the parachute manufacturers and some time ago I standardized on two. For all my rockets 25lbs and below, I use Fruity Chutes. They are expensive, but I have found them to be worth it. Their Iris Ultra Compact chutes give you super performance in a small package. With a 2.2 Cd, they outperform most other chutes at the same size, so you can downsize and still have safe landing speeds. I am a big believer in smaller chutes - they tend to have less deployment issues and eject easier. So, I use their Iris ultra chutes for most HPR mains and their Classic Ellipticals for drogues. As a bonus, they have one of the best descent calculators on the web.

Realistically, you only need one chute of each size. I install a swivel on the attach point on the rocket (usually the payload bay shock cord) and then use snaplinks to clip the parachute to the swivel. This way, not only can I switch the parachutes between rockets, I can make a call at the field based on weather conditions.

For rockets 25lbs and over, I use Skyangle Cert 3 parachutes and drogues.

Just want to add this disclaimer - these are my preferences, many people on this forum have great suggestions and preferences that work for them, so it does pay to ask around. There are great options that are cheaper than Fruity Chutes and Skyangle.

The only thing I would really recommend is sticking with a brand and product through a number of weight classes. This gives you apples-to-apples comparison when you need to decide which size chute you want to use. If you use a bunch of different brands, it is almost impossible to compare and decide. A 48" Fruity Chute Iris Ultra Compact is vastly different than a 48" LOC, for example. I want to be able to reduce the decision factor to size only and the only way I know to do that is by using the same brand/model at different sizes.

#### Budro0

##### Well-Known Member
Do you have any recommendations for good HPR parachutes? I have personal experience with Top Flite, but I've heard of Bama, LOC, Fruity, etc
I agonized over this for a long time and eventually just bought a couple for one rocket and did some tests. I ended up really liking Spherachutes and Rocketman. For my 1.9lb rocket, I use a 3ft from both (standard Sphera and standard parabolic Rocketman). Both give virtually the same descent rates. I really like everything about the Spheras and have no complaints. The Rocketman chutes can be a little diffucult to pack in the same airframe that a Sphera fits. Prices were comparable, but I know I've only bought Rocketman chutes on sale.

Not to say anything bad about any other company, but Julie at Spherachutes is amazing and her 4 day turnaround on a custom chute meant I had a chute that was perfectly sized for my L1 rocket in less than a week.

#### Alan R

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've always wondered if any Zephyr owners/fliers have had problems with the fins being damaged upon landing? Those point fins extending below the end of the body tube look like they would be vulnerable to breaking. I know the Zephyr's fins are pretty iconic/unique, but I could see myself trimming those points down a bit.
+1 per @mtnmanak those plywood fins are really solid and I've never had a problem. Launch weight is only about 3.5 lbs. so not a lot of stress unless you have complete failure.

I have a Zephyr in the cart at Apogee, but the shipping cost being 1/4 of the rocket's price is what's keeping it there for now...
or just look at it differently. Pretty much any similar kit probably costs almost \$25 more once you add in a chute and nomex that the other guys don't include.

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Thank you all for the great info on parachutes and the Zephyr. I apologize for kind of hijacking the thread, but hopefully it will get back on track when @JasonB flies his Zephyr this weekend!

I like the idea of sticking to one chute brand to better compare between sizes and styles. Also it looks like the Zephyr is currently out of stock, so that decision is made for me, for now. I know I'll get one eventually!

#### Arpak

##### Well-Known Member
Nice rocket, and cool paint job!

I have a Zephyr in the cart at Apogee, but the shipping cost being 1/4 of the rocket's price is what's keeping it there for now...

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've always wondered if any Zephyr owners/fliers have had problems with the fins being damaged upon landing? Those point fins extending below the end of the body tube look like they would be vulnerable to breaking. I know the Zephyr's fins are pretty iconic/unique, but I could see myself trimming those points down a bit.
If I can throw my hat in, the Zephyr fins are solid as hell probably helped by the assembly allowing you to place internal fillets easily. I lawndarted my zephyr last launch and one of the fins completely dug itself into the ground, the fin is fine with some minor cracking in the little overhang cut out bit. I'm sure I can fix it with some epoxy however.

#### Brian Ditmer

##### Well-Known Member
think you got a fin issue? A big parachute protected mine from a landing on a dry lakebed

#### JasonB

##### Member
Level 1 Certified today.... LVL 1 Cert with H182 and then fired off the I280DM

it was a good day.

#### mtnmanak

##### TRA & NAR L2
TRF Supporter
Level 1 Certified today.... LVL 1 Cert with H182 and then fired off the I280DM

it was a good day.

View attachment 460326
Congrats, great job!

#### ksaves2

Great,
Congratulations. now do the DD version and get the L2 in the can.
Then, you can really start spending money for reloads!
Or go crazy and learn to mix from a nearby club that mixes and you'll "really" be spending money then.

Kurt

#### jrap330

##### Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Level 1 Certified today.... LVL 1 Cert with H182 and then fired off the I280DM

it was a good day.

View attachment 460326
Motor ejection on the cert? Yes, what was the delay?

#### JasonB

##### Member
Yep... delay was supposed to be 8s. Drilled out the delay ... 14s stock

##### Well-Known Member
Awesome congratulations!

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I have another quick question for Zephyr owners. Is anyone rounding the LE of the fins on these? I've been looking at photos, and it doesn't seem like it. If so, is it because of the proximity of the fin tip cutout to the LE, or just not bothering? With the 1/4" fins, it seems like you could use a router and round-over bit to get a quick and easy profile on the LE.

##### Well-Known Member
I have another quick question for Zephyr owners. Is anyone rounding the LE of the fins on these? I've been looking at photos, and it doesn't seem like it. If so, is it because of the proximity of the fin tip cutout to the LE, or just not bothering? With the 1/4" fins, it seems like you could use a router and round-over bit to get a quick and easy profile on the LE.
I personally did not
No reason for not doing it
Iam sure it would be effective to do so.

#### JasonB

##### Member
I did not round the leading edges. Im not trying for max alt. In my case and probably with most people they bought it to do that level 1 cert, just want a easy to build and durable. I also get ocd when I cannot make all the fins the same. No router access. I havent researched it but
I am curious exactly how much less drag or extra alt one gets from rounded leading edges.

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
I personally did not
No reason for not doing it
Iam sure it would be effective to do so.
I did not round the leading edges. Im not trying for max alt. In my case and probably with most people they bought it to do that level 1 cert, just want a easy to build and durable. I also get ocd when I cannot make all the fins the same. No router access. I havent researched it but
I am curious exactly how much less drag or extra alt one gets from rounded leading edges.
Thanks for the quick responses. I wouldn't do this looking for better performance/altitude, but just for the aesthetics. Since becoming a BAR rounding at least the LEs of fins as become habit, so it would feel weird to not do it!

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks for the quick responses. I wouldn't do this looking for better performance/altitude, but just for the aesthetics. Since becoming a BAR rounding at least the LEs of fins as become habit, so it would feel weird to not do it!
Iam sure it would look great more refined clean finish to the fins

#### JasonB

##### Member
I didnt mind the squares off fins... gave it a more robust look to it. I do like the looks of fins that have an airfoil style pattern to them though

#### Arpak

##### Well-Known Member
I have another quick question for Zephyr owners. Is anyone rounding the LE of the fins on these? I've been looking at photos, and it doesn't seem like it. If so, is it because of the proximity of the fin tip cutout to the LE, or just not bothering? With the 1/4" fins, it seems like you could use a router and round-over bit to get a quick and easy profile on the LE.
I gave it a "sanding", rounding is an overstatement.

#### TheTank

##### Well-Known Member
Fin strength.... i converted mine to dual deploy shortly after my L1. Flown it a ton. Had an av-bay separation at the bulkhead and my fin can fell 3000ft on an 18” flat drogue and smacked the ice (flying off Lake Winnepesaukee) fins first/vertical. This was all the damage it sustained. Literally wicked thin CA in there, clamped it, and its good and back to flying on J’s.

#### Spitfire222

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Fin strength.... i converted mine to dual deploy shortly after my L1. Flown it a ton. Had an av-bay separation at the bulkhead and my fin can fell 3000ft on an 18” flat drogue and smacked the ice (flying off Lake Winnepesaukee) fins first/vertical. This was all the damage it sustained. Literally wicked thin CA in there, clamped it, and its good and back to flying on J’s.
I was only going to round the leading edges of the fins, but it's still cool to see the aft tips survive so well after a fall!