Apogee Level 2 Build

[Hobie1dog]

Finally after 9 years I dry fitted the rocket together today. Everything takes so long now being as disabled as I am but it looks like I may get there now. So trying to get it ready for a May launch seems possible.

I was going to tap the fiberglass airframe for those (3) #2-56 shear pins, but my tap and die set is metric instead of standard, so now I have to find a tap and die set that will have that tap in it. My standard tap and die set is very likely in one of the (3) 5 ft tall Craftsman boxes that I gave away when I got disabled. Next on the list is to drill the three vent holes in the switch band of the electronics bay and order a metal key switch from DigiKey. I'm finally getting more excited about getting the level 2.

 

[boatgeek]

Finally after 9 years I dry fitted the rocket together today. Everything takes so long now being as disabled as I am but it looks like I may get there now. So trying to get it ready for a May launch seems possible.

I was going to tap the fiberglass airframe for those (3) #2-56 shear pins, but my tap and die set is metric instead of standard, so now I have to find a tap and die set that will have that tap in it. My standard tap and die set is very likely in one of the (3) 5 ft tall Craftsman boxes that I gave away when I got disabled. Next on the list is to drill the three vent holes in the switch band of the electronics bay and order a metal key switch from DigiKey. I'm finally getting more excited about getting the level 2.

Rather than tapping the airframe, you can drill the hole so it’s between the major and minor diameters of the screw thread. You’ll be able to push the shear pin in and it will stay put. It’s easier to get the sheared-off pin out this way, just push it through with an awl.

 

[mtnmanak]

Finally after 9 years I dry fitted the rocket together today. Everything takes so long now being as disabled as I am but it looks like I may get there now. So trying to get it ready for a May launch seems possible.

I was going to tap the fiberglass airframe for those (3) #2-56 shear pins, but my tap and die set is metric instead of standard, so now I have to find a tap and die set that will have that tap in it. My standard tap and die set is very likely in one of the (3) 5 ft tall Craftsman boxes that I gave away when I got disabled. Next on the list is to drill the three vent holes in the switch band of the electronics bay and order a metal key switch from DigiKey. I'm finally getting more excited about getting the level 2.

Looking good Marty!

 

[Hobie1dog]

Looking good Marty!

Ater reading both of your high power build threads, whatever you suggest, I'm probably going to take very seriously, as you are definitely a master builder in my viewpoint.

 

[mtnmanak]

Going back to the altimeter and sled, I saw in another thread Adrian is sending you an older RRC2 - great little altimeter. Just wanted to point out that, in the future, if you are looking for an altimeter that is compatible with the MW LCD screen, but is cheaper than the RRC3, don't discount the RRC2L. It is a newer version of the RRC2 that is designed to work with the LCD Screen. It gives up the computer interface and the logging capability of the RRC3, but it is about 30% cheaper and very small. I use them all the time on smaller rockets and as backup altimeters on bigger rockets. I like them because you can program them easily in the field with the LCD and they definitely fall into the category of "just works". I am not aware of a another fully functional dual deployment altimeter out there right now that is cheaper than the RRC2L (except Eggtimer, but you need to assemble the Eggtimers).

https://www.missileworks.com/store/#!/RRC2L-Altimeter/p/211256220/category=6735554

 

[mtnmanak]

Finally after 9 years I dry fitted the rocket together today. Everything takes so long now being as disabled as I am but it looks like I may get there now. So trying to get it ready for a May launch seems possible.

I was going to tap the fiberglass airframe for those (3) #2-56 shear pins, but my tap and die set is metric instead of standard, so now I have to find a tap and die set that will have that tap in it. My standard tap and die set is very likely in one of the (3) 5 ft tall Craftsman boxes that I gave away when I got disabled. Next on the list is to drill the three vent holes in the switch band of the electronics bay and order a metal key switch from DigiKey. I'm finally getting more excited about getting the level 2.

I like those black stands you have the rocket on - where did you get them?

 

[Hobie1dog]

I like those black stands you have the rocket on - where did you get them?

I made them from pvc pipe and some fi
ttings, cheap and easy, all fittings just friction fitted, sprayed satin black, used some soft black foam pipe insulation on the upper cross sections for cushion. Somebody posted them up on here and I found more images on Google showing them. All the 45 degree pieces are the same length for simplicity.
3/4" pvc materials list:
(4) pieces for the x section 8" long
(4) pieces for the horizontal feet 4" long
(4) caps
(1) cross/4 way fitting
(2) Tee fittings
(2) 6" long foam pieces
(2) black soft plastic caps

 

[mtnmanak]

I made them from pvc pipe and some fi
ttings, cheap and easy, all fittings just friction fitted, sprayed satin black, used some soft black foam pipe insulation on the upper cross sections for cushion. Somebody posted them up on here and I found more images on Google showing them. All the 45 degree pieces are the same length for simplicity.
3/4" pvc materials list:
(4) pieces for the x section 8" long
(4) pieces for the horizontal feet 4" long
(6) caps
(1) cross/4 way fitting
(2) 6" long foam pieces

Nice! Those things look so professional, I thought you bought them somewhere! I use PVC stands, but mine look pretty ghetto compared to those.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Nice! Those things look so professional, I thought you bought them somewhere! I use PVC stands, but mine look pretty ghetto compared to those.

Thanks, here's a side view to show how simple of a design it is

I edited the materials list seeing I forgot the T fittings used in the feet. And now I see I forgot about the black plastic caps used at the top.

 

[thzero]

More or less what I've done.

 

[kcobbva]

Finally after 9 years I dry fitted the rocket together today. Everything takes so long now being as disabled as I am but it looks like I may get there now. So trying to get it ready for a May launch seems possible.

I was going to tap the fiberglass airframe for those (3) #2-56 shear pins, but my tap and die set is metric instead of standard, so now I have to find a tap and die set that will have that tap in it. My standard tap and die set is very likely in one of the (3) 5 ft tall Craftsman boxes that I gave away when I got disabled. Next on the list is to drill the three vent holes in the switch band of the electronics bay and order a metal key switch from DigiKey. I'm finally getting more excited about getting the level 2.

This is looking Great! Look forward to seeing what you come up with for a paint scheme!!!

 

[kcobbva]

Thanks, here's a side view to show how simple of a design it is

I edited the materials list seeing I forgot the T fittings used in the feet. And now I see I forgot about the black plastic caps used at the top.

I always joined mine together as a single unit with a stretch of PVC at the bottom. I MUCH prefer your method because I'd not be stuck to the size I made it rather be able to slide them where I need them to support whatever rocket I'm working on. That's why I love this forum - ideas that just smack you in the face!

 

[Hobie1dog]

I always joined mine together as a single unit with a stretch of PVC at the bottom. I MUCH prefer your method because I'd not be stuck to the size I made it rather be able to slide them where I need them to support whatever rocket I'm working on. That's why I love this forum - ideas that just smack you in the face!

Right, being pressed together you can make longer top pieces to put bigger diameter air frames on, or twist the bottom Tee's 90 degrees and allow them to fold flat for transport.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Going back to the altimeter and sled, I saw in another thread Adrian is sending you an older RRC2 - great little altimeter. Just wanted to point out that, in the future, if you are looking for an altimeter that is compatible with the MW LCD screen, but is cheaper than the RRC3, don't discount the RRC2L. It is a newer version of the RRC2 that is designed to work with the LCD Screen. It gives up the computer interface and the logging capability of the RRC3, but it is about 30% cheaper and very small. I use them all the time on smaller rockets and as backup altimeters on bigger rockets. I like them because you can program them easily in the field with the LCD and they definitely fall into the category of "just works". I am not aware of a another fully functional dual deployment altimeter out there right now that is cheaper than the RRC2L (except Eggtimer, but you need to assemble the Eggtimers).

https://www.missileworks.com/store/#!/RRC2L-Altimeter/p/211256220/category=6735554

Thanks, $50 is what I wanted to spend max. I was hoping to find a RRC3 used for that price, but the RRC2L is a great option. I looked at the 75mm sled that they sell with the 2" on center rod tunnels and it looks to be just as easy to get one of those and drill 2 new holes to mount a RRC2 or a RRC2L on it. What do you think about that idea?

 

[mtnmanak]

Thanks, $50 is what I wanted to spend max. I was hoping to find a RRC3 used for that price, but the RRC2L is a great option. I looked at the 75mm sled that they sell with the 2" on center rod tunnels and it looks to be just as easy to get one of those and drill 2 new holes to mount a RRC2 or a RRC2L on it. What do you think about that idea?

Excellent plan.

Luckily, if you get any of the 75mm sleds from Missile Works or Additive Aerospace, you won't have to drill any extra holes. They all come with holes already spaced for both the RRC3 and the RRC2 lines.

Here is the Missile Works RRC3 75mm sled, you can see the mounting holes for the RRC2 in the middle (sorry, the RRC2 was a bit crooked when I took the photo):



If you get the Additive Aerospace sled, there are a whole bunch of pre-drilled holes that fit the RRC2:



Here is a completed sled I use in my Madcow Broken Arrow - you can see both the RRC3 and the RRC2 mount nicely to the same sled with existing holes:

 

[Hobie1dog]

Excellent plan.

Luckily, if you get any of the 75mm sleds from Missile Works or Additive Aerospace, you won't have to drill any extra holes. They all come with holes already spaced for both the RRC3 and the RRC2 lines.

Here is the Missile Works RRC3 75mm sled, you can see the mounting holes for the RRC2 in the middle (sorry, the RRC2 was a bit crooked when I took the photo):

View attachment 514418

If you get the Additive Aerospace sled, there are a whole bunch of pre-drilled holes that fit the RRC2:

View attachment 514419

Here is a completed sled I use in my Madcow Broken Arrow - you can see both the RRC3 and the RRC2 mount nicely to the same sled with existing holes:

View attachment 514420

Thanks for the pictures. I'm not a fan of that wooden sled that came with the rocket.

 

[mtnmanak]

Thanks for the pictures. I'm not a fan of that wooden sled that came with the rocket.

Ahh, now I understand what you mean - yes, the RRC2 is easy to install on the wood sled. Easier than the RRC3 - with the RRC2 you only need to line up 2 holes, not 4!

 

[Hobie1dog]

For vent holes on a four inch rocket, three 1/8" or 5/32" holes should be good:

https://www.vernk.com/AltimeterPortSizing.htm

Since I made 3 lines on the air frame for the shear pins, I wish I could only drill 2 vent holes as the third line has the hole for the key switch on the band of the electroncs bay. I'll just drill the vent hole under the switch.

 

[Hobie1dog]

This is looking Great! Look forward to seeing what you come up with for a paint scheme!!!

Likely going to have my Son-In-Law take it to his body shop he runs and have the painter spray BMW San Marino Blue on it.

I'm going with vinyl decals as someone else is going to end up with this thing in a couple years when I die, so they need to be able to remove them. No clearcoat over them. They now have gold leaf vinyl and silver leaf vinyl like is used on business signs, fire trucks, etc. Something like this :

These are the rockets they painted last week for me:

 

[mtnmanak]

That will look great! I wholeheartedly endorse having rockets painted professionally - even when it isn't in the family business. That 8" Pike I painted last year took over 20 rattle cans once it was all said and done and probably ended up costing me $250 in paint cans. After that, I swore I would bring any big rocket to a body shop from now on. the "savings" in my health alone would be worth it. I am sure I can find a young man in the local area looking to make a quick buck to do the paint job - and they will do twice as good of a job and most likely cheaper.

 

[Hobie1dog]

That will look great! I wholeheartedly endorse having rockets painted professionally swore I would bring any big rocket to a body shop from now on. the "savings" in my health alone would be worth it. I am sure I can find a young man in the local area looking to make a quick buck to do the paint job - and they will do twice as good of a job and most likely cheaper.

The thing I always recommend to people is to take a rocket and stop by a local body shop and show it to them, as a lot of times they take great interest in doing something on the side and you can explain that you would also accept a couple different color options (if you want a solid color rocket )and they can call you and say that they have a certain color coming up of a car, and they can include your rocket by just having a little more paint in the gun, so it's no real trouble for them.

 

[kcobbva]

Likely going to have my Son-In-Law take it to his body shop he runs and have the painter spray BMW San Marino Blue on it.

I'm going with vinyl decals as someone else is going to end up with this thing in a couple years when I die, so they need to be able to remove them. No clearcoat over them. They now have gold leaf vinyl and silver leaf vinyl like is used on business signs, fire trucks, etc. Something like this :

These are the rockets they painted last week for me:

Wow. I cannot wait to see this one done and all fixed up! And having a son with a paint booth! (you planned that well!)

 

[Hobie1dog]

I got the very small key switches from Digi key that was referenced above and I misunderstood about how they were designed. Having thinking that the key switch would only provide removal of the key in the on position ,and when it was flipped 90° back to the off position that the key would stay in place and you couldn't pull it out , But you can pull it out either way. And it's a fairly loose fit so having a large "remove before flight" tag will be necessary, which I have ordered. The small size is perfect. I was going to make the hole for the switch today but got feeling bad and had to quit so I will start back on it tomorrow. I will also drill the 3 vent holes 5/32"
I could not find the small 2-56 tap anywhere local, so I went back to the ever popular Amazon and found a tap and a drill bit combination for $9
On the level 2 Maiden flight I will use motor rejection then I will install the RRC2 Missile Works altimeter that I was gifted from a generous forum member, "jd2cylman" and then test the Rouse Tech CO2 system instead of using black powder charges. I don't think I saw anywhere in the parts where there are charge wells included. So I guess it means that everyone just goes to the hardware store and gets a couple of PVC caps?

 

[mtnmanak]

I got the very small key switches from Digi key that was referenced above and I misunderstood about how they were designed. Having thinking that the key switch would only provide removal of the key in the on position ,and when it was flipped 90° back to the off position that the key would stay in place and you couldn't pull it out , But you can pull it out either way. And it's a fairly loose fit so having a large "remove before flight" tag will be necessary, which I have ordered. The small size is perfect. I was going to make the hole for the switch today but got feeling bad and had to quit so I will start back on it tomorrow. I will also drill the 3 vent holes 5/32"
I could not find the small 2-56 tap anywhere local, so I went back to the ever popular Amazon and found a tap and a drill bit combination for $9
On the level 2 Maiden flight I will use motor rejection then I will install the RRC2 Missile Works altimeter that I was gifted from a generous forum member, "jd2cylman" and then test the Rouse Tech CO2 system instead of using black powder charges. I don't think I saw anywhere in the parts where there are charge wells included. So I guess it means that everyone just goes to the hardware store and gets a couple of PVC caps?

PVC Caps are fine. The ones that are supposed to come with the kit are 1/2" diameter, but they are the smaller ones you will find for copper pipes, not the caps for Charlotte PVC pipe. The Charlotte ones are huge.

For reference, they are 1/2" CTS CPVC caps. Home depot sells them for 48 cents a piece and they easily hold enough BP for a rocket this size. I have used them many times in 4" rockets:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-CPVC-CTS-Slip-Cap-Fitting-C4717HD12/100015035




For tapping, if you are ever looking for a weekend DIY project, making a tap guide is a huge sanity saver, especially for curved surfaces like a tube. Keeps your tap nice and straight. Easy to make and cheap.



I followed Adam Savage's advice on making one. I have made several now, and contour the bottom of each to different tube diameters.

 

[mtnmanak]

Also, if you use PVC caps, I like to sand the bottom flat. Helps keep it steady on the bulkhead.

 

[Hobie1dog]

PVC Caps are fine. The ones that are supposed to come with the kit are 1/2" diameter, but they are the smaller ones you will find for copper pipes, not the caps for Charlotte PVC pipe. The Charlotte ones are huge.

For reference, they are 1/2" CTS CPVC caps. Home depot sells them for 48 cents a piece and they easily hold enough BP for a rocket this size. I have used them many times in 4" rockets:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-CPVC-CTS-Slip-Cap-Fitting-C4717HD12/100015035For tapping, if you are ever looking for a weekend DIY project, making a tap guide is a huge sanity saver, especially for curved surfaces like a tube. Keeps your tap nice and straight. Easy to make and cheap.

View attachment 515533

You are such a source of great wealth on rocketry and I want to thank you for sharing all of your knowledge with us.

 

[kcobbva]

I could not find the small 2-56 tap anywhere local

I so miss gadget stores and small family owned hardware stores that had everything you could dream of. While I do shop on amazon, I would MUCH prefer to go to a store and look/feel/buy! As for PVC caps. That's all I've used and they have held up extremely well.

 

[Hobie1dog]

I so miss gadget stores and small family owned hardware stores that had everything you could dream of. While I do shop on amazon, I would MUCH prefer to go to a store and look/feel/buy! As for PVC caps. That's all I've used and they have held up extremely well.

I thought my local ACE hdw store would have them but they didn't go that small. The huge hardware store in Charlotte was out of them.
I'm going to install the PVC caps, but have no interest in ever using them.

I fitted the key switch in the band today and drilled the (3) 5/32 vent holes. Now i have to wait for the tap to come in before proceeding.

There is a local launch this weekend so I first need to go tomorrow and try the Level 1...again. That just rips me a new anal cavity having to do something over that I've already proven that I could do. And having to spend the money on the motor....AGAIN The people who are sitting around the conference table making up these rules are NOT living on SS Income, and are NOT disabled with thousands of dollars in medical bills.

 

[kcobbva]

I thought my local ACE hdw store would have them but they didn't go that small. The huge hardware store in Charlotte was out of them.
I'm going to install the PVC caps, but have no interest in ever using them.

I fitted the key switch in the band today and drilled the (3) 5/32 vent holes. Now i have to wait for the tap to come in before proceeding.

There is a local launch this weekend so I first need to go tomorrow and try the Level 1...again. That just rips me a new anal cavity having to do something over that I've already proven that I could do. And having to spend the money on the motor....AGAIN The people who are sitting around the conference table making up these rules are NOT living on SS Income, and are NOT disabled with thousands of dollars in medical bills.

Tripoli or NAR Cert? I didn't think the NAR expired. I could be wrong, but I didn't think so.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Tripoli or NAR Cert? I didn't think the NAR expired. I could be wrong, but I didn't think so.

Tripoli. When I got ready to join an organization I had previously been a member of Tripoli but then I noticed on the NAR site that they would not accept a payment by PayPal. That was the only place I had any money, So Tripoli would accept Paypal.