Apogee Components recommends D21s in Quest MLAS kit

[Initiator001]

I received a notice from Apogee Components about the latest issue of their newsletter being available for reading/download at the Apogee website.

The same announcement noted that the Quest MLAS kit is now available through Apogee and provided a link to it. As I read the Apogee write-up on the MLAS kit, there is a chart displaying the recommended motors for the kit. As noted in the chart, RocSim simulations recommend B6, C6, D10 & D21 motors with a C6-3 as the first flight motor.

A D21??? :y:

Nowhere in the write-up does it discuss modifying the MLAS to use motors other than those recommended by the kit manufacturer.

So, who wants to be the first to try a D21 in a stock Quest MLAS?

 

[mjennings]

D10's and D21's are single use 18 mm composite motors by AeroTech, and as such the kit could be flown stock on these motors with out an engine tube upgrade. That doesn't mean nose weight may not need to be adjusted from stock. I do not know how much heavier the aerotech motors are over Estes/Quest C's

 

[cjl]

D21, D13, D24, and D10 motors are all 18mm, and will fit in a standard estes motor mount. Of course, that doesn't guarantee the rocket's survival. For example, I can say with some authority that a stock Fliskits Borealis will not survive a D13.

(Yes, I have some experience in this area)

A D21 in an MLAS would certainly be ridiculous. Someone should try it

 

[The EGE]

C6s are 23g start mass; D10s are 26g and D21s are 25g. As long as it's stable on a C6, then you don't need to add much weight if any to fly on SU Ds.

The D13 and D21 are around 33g; you'll need to add just a bit more nose weight.


And when I buy one (prolly pretty soon), I will gladly fly it on a D21.

 

[MarkII]

Apogee routinely lists their own D motor and any others that they might be selling in the motor grids that accompany their kit listings. Basically, Tim lists any motor that RockSim indicates will work in the kit. For perfectly understandable reasons, he always lists his own Medalist motors in the grids, too.

MarkII

 

[stickershock23]

I received a notice from Apogee Components about the latest issue of their newsletter being available for reading/download at the Apogee website.

The same announcement noted that the Quest MLAS kit is now available through Apogee and provided a link to it. As I read the Apogee write-up on the MLAS kit, there is a chart displaying the recommended motors for the kit. As noted in the chart, RocSim simulations recommend B6, C6, D10 & D21 motors with a C6-3 as the first flight motor.

A D21??? :y:

Nowhere in the write-up does it discuss modifying the MLAS to use motors other than those recommended by the kit manufacturer.

So, who wants to be the first to try a D21 in a stock Quest MLAS?

I added a little nose weight in mine and thats what I flew it on first. other than fins breaking on landing. it flew GREAT

 

[RoyAtl]

I received a notice from Apogee Components about the latest issue of their newsletter being available for reading/download at the Apogee website.

The same announcement noted that the Quest MLAS kit is now available through Apogee and provided a link to it. As I read the Apogee write-up on the MLAS kit, there is a chart displaying the recommended motors for the kit. As noted in the chart, RocSim simulations recommend B6, C6, D10 & D21 motors with a C6-3 as the first flight motor.

A D21??? :y:

Nowhere in the write-up does it discuss modifying the MLAS to use motors other than those recommended by the kit manufacturer.

So, who wants to be the first to try a D21 in a stock Quest MLAS?

Nothing to do with MLAS or anything (well, until the last paragraph), but I found an OLD (maybe >15 years old) D21-4 in my range box the other day at the SoAR launch and gave it to a group of teenagers wanting to fly their Estes Hijinks (the RTF alpha III with the long nose cone) as high as they could. I asked if they were prepared to lose it... they said yes. I prepped it with a Q2G2 ignitor.

I forgot how fast those things ignite and get outta there!

No one saw the rocket for about a minute, then someone shouted, "there it is!" it was still a few hundred feet in the air, the parachute either tangled or melted shut in a place or two. It fell toward the line of trees going through the field, and as it finally got to them the nose and chute snagged a few feet up and the body fell off. Turns out the ejection or remaining delay had burned the elastic shock cord to the one remaining piece of rubber, which then gave way when the nose and chute were snagged.

I had been using those D21s that I had gotten so long ago to fly my Quest DC-Y. Those launches are loud and exciting, and it is fun to see the DC-Y suddenly STOP at burnout due to the high drag overcoming inertia! I suppose the MLAS will fly the same way!

 

[RoyAtl]

D10's and D21's are single use 18 mm composite motors by AeroTech, and as such the kit could be flown stock on these motors with out an engine tube upgrade. That doesn't mean nose weight may not need to be adjusted from stock. I do not know how much heavier the aerotech motors are over Estes/Quest C's

Bob is quite familiar with the D21, having been an employee of Aerotech around the time of its introduction

 

[Blankjorge]

I was there. The Hijinks didn't launch on that D21, it teleported. Kind of like an PML Arreaux on a J570....but that's another story.

 

[mjennings]

Didn't know that I read it as a will it work/does it need a mod question.

Bob is quite familiar with the D21, having been an employee of Aerotech around the time of its introduction

 

[RoyAtl]

Didn't know that I read it as a will it work/does it need a mod question.

I realize that, but I read it (especially with the "Yikes" emoticon), as a "What The Frak?!"* type of comment.

In any case, now you know who Bob is.
(the handle "Initiator001" refers to his pretty much only claim to fame :neener: as the designer of the Aerotech Initiator.)





*yes, a nod to you BSG fans.

and the *neener* is meant for Bob!

 

[powderburner]

Apogee routinely lists their own D motor and any others that they might be selling in the motor grids that accompany their kit listings. Basically, Tim lists any motor that RockSim indicates will work in the kit. For perfectly understandable reasons, he always lists his own Medalist motors in the grids, too.

TVM (and Apogee rocketry) is pretty good at promoting himself at every opportunity. I guess that's what you have to do to keep a model rocket business rolling these days.

I have to wonder though; why would you want to put a D-anything into that kit? It's not like that will get you a "scale"-looking flight profile, because the real one did not take off like a rifle shot. The real one was low, (relatively) slow, and definitely not trying to make orbit. It sure seems like an Estes C motor will work fine for the intended purpose.

Save those big motors (yeah, I know, there are many motors much bigger than a D) and rocketry bucks for something that really needs to feel the speed.

 

[The EGE]

TVM (and Apogee rocketry) is pretty good at promoting himself at every opportunity. I guess that's what you have to do to keep a model rocket business rolling these days.

I have to wonder though; why would you want to put a D-anything into that kit? It's not like that will get you a "scale"-looking flight profile, because the real one did not take off like a rifle shot. The real one was low, (relatively) slow, and definitely not trying to make orbit. It sure seems like an Estes C motor will work fine for the intended purpose.

Save those big motors (yeah, I know, there are many motors much bigger than a D) and rocketry bucks for something that really needs to feel the speed.

I dunno if a P will fit. But the 38mm or 54mm soda can cases certainly might...:y:

Seriously, though, this is a 3.5" diameter rocket. It's not gonna go fast on *any* 18mm motor, and a D10W would put out an impressive amount of scale-like smoke.

 

[MarkII]

TVM (and Apogee rocketry) is pretty good at promoting himself at every opportunity. I guess that's what you have to do to keep a model rocket business rolling these days.

I have to wonder though; why would you want to put a D-anything into that kit? It's not like that will get you a "scale"-looking flight profile, because the real one did not take off like a rifle shot. The real one was low, (relatively) slow, and definitely not trying to make orbit. It sure seems like an Estes C motor will work fine for the intended purpose.

Save those big motors (yeah, I know, there are many motors much bigger than a D) and rocketry bucks for something that really needs to feel the speed.

I absolutely agree. Not every rocket needs to be flown on the biggest motor that can be crammed into it. I have much more fun flying my Mosquito on a Micromaxx motor than I ever would if I flew it on an A3T. But in the motor grids that appear on the product pages for the kits that Apogee sells, TVM isn't telling you what to fly the model on; he's just showing you what it will do on various motors that it can safely fly on. At least that's how I read them. Sure, he includes Apogee's Medalist motors; if they will work, why shouldn't he? If I were in his position, I would do that, too. I guess that one of the purposes of the grid is to help to sell the kit by providing some information on how the model flies. It is more informative than just giving the maximum altitude that the model can achieve on its recommended motors, which is the only information that many other vendors provide. Of course, the somewhat greater detail that Apogee provides is really also a way to promote RockSim as well, by showing a little bit of what it can tell you about a kit and how it can help you select a motor to use with it. It should be noted that many of the motor grids also include motors that Apogee doesn't sell, too. That won't generate any motor sales for them, but the grid itself has great promotional value.

MarkII

 

[shreadvector]

Has anyone mentioned that the weight difference between a B6 and a C6 will make the model unstable - according to Quest - and do recommending any motor that weighs more than a B6 could expose the recommender to liability?

 

[stickershock23]

Has anyone mentioned that the weight difference between a B6 and a C6 will make the model unstable - according to Quest - and do recommending any motor that weighs more than a B6 could expose the recommender to liability?

I'd hate to see what happens when a 3 oz styrofoam tipped rocket hits something at about 2 MPH... relax fred its a hobby. it should be fun LOL (you know I'm just giving you a hard time Fred)

Mine flew fin on the D21, just keep the CG at the half way point between the bottom of the nose cone and the top of the top set of fins... thats the only mods I made on mine.

Quick tip I put 3 nuts on the 1/4 20 lag bolt that came with the kit. worked perfect, and still came down nice on the Quest chute. If you want a nice soft landing you might add one more chute.

 

[shreadvector]

I'd hate to see what happens when a 3 oz styrofoam tipped rocket hits something at about 2 MPH... relax fred its a hobby. it should be fun LOL (you know I'm just giving you a hard time Fred)

Mine flew fin on the D21, just keep the CG at the half way point between the bottom of the nose cone and the top of the top set of fins... thats the only mods I made on mine.

Quick tip I put 3 nuts on the 1/4 20 lag bolt that came with the kit. worked perfect, and still came down nice on the Quest chute. If you want a nice soft landing you might add one more chute.

Of course, giving complete advice for increasing the power of a kit (like "you can use a C6 or D10 or D21 motor if you add xyz nose weight an make sure the c.g. remains at or forward of a specified point) is different from simply saying "fly it with these additional motors as well as those listed in the kit instructions".

Of course, I said that in one of the other threads a month or two ago.....

 

[stickershock23]

Of course, giving complete advice for increasing the power of a kit (like "you can use a C6 or D10 or D21 motor if you add xyz nose weight an make sure the c.g. remains at or forward of a specified point) is different from simply saying "fly it with these additional motors as well as those listed in the kit instructions".

Of course, I said that in one of the other threads a month or two ago.....

Yep a little research, found were the CG is on the stock kit, kept with that, then did a swing test.

It's amazing how well a quick swing test does to insure stability on any flight.

 

[Initiator001]

Apogee has updated their suggested motor usage information for the Quest MLAS model.

It now only lists the B6-2 and B6-4 motors per the manufacturer.

I commend Tim for acting promptly on this issue. His website is an important source of information for many rocketeers (Especially beginners).