Anyone use an Aerotech M1297 in a CTI 75mm case?

[knarfster]

I was reading through the Cesaroni site and it says all the 75mm cases are designed to be compatible with RMS.

SO has anyone used the Aerotech reloads in the Cesaroni 75mm cases?

Do you know if the 4 Grains 75mm case is the one for the M1297 reload?

 

[MarkM]

That's not the way it works! You're misreading.
AT loads are not compatible with the CTI cases
It's opposite way....the 75mm CTI loads can used in the appropriate AT case.
75mm (and 98mm) CTI loads are cross-certified for use in both CTI hardware and AT hardware
Aerotech reloads are NOT cross-certified; they can only be used in AT hardware

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

It's opposite way....the 75mm CTI loads can used in the appropriate AT case.
75mm (and 98mm) CTI loads are cross-certified for use in both CTI hardware and AT hardware
Aerotech reloads are NOT cross-certified; they can only be used in AT hardware

Thanks for clarification. Why would one want to do this anyway? We have great reloads. Quite a few new ones on the way as well!

Jeroen

 

[RandyM]

Is there a cross reference as to which RMS case is to be used with which CTI reload? I can't seem to find it on the CTI site.

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Is there a cross reference as to which RMS case is to be used with which CTI reload? I can't seem to find it on the CTI site.

I don't think it is there, but we should have it:

Pro75-2G = RMS75/2560
Pro75-3G = RMS75/3840
Pro75-4G = RMS75/5120
Pro75-5G = RMS75/6400

Pro98-1G = RMS98/2560
Pro98-2G = RMS98/5120
Pro98-3G = RMS98/7680
Pro98-4G = RMS98/10240
Pro98-6G = RMS98/15360

Jeroen

 

[Mike Di Venti]

Thanks for clarification. Why would one want to do this anyway? We have great reloads. Quite a few new ones on the way as well!

Jeroen

Why buy two different sets of hardware if the loads are compatible and certified?
It's a cost saver in my book along with more options.

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Why buy two different sets of hardware if the loads are compatible and certified?
It's a cost saver in my book along with more options.

The question was why you would want to put an AT reload in an ProX casing. I agree that with an AT/RMS casing you have more options right now.

However, looking forward we probably will not X-certify all reloads anymore. Just because of cost reasons. For an "L" motor you need 3 firings. In case of x-certification that doubles to six. Quite a few reloads will need to be sold before breaking even.

 

[Garoq]

The question was why you would want to put an AT reload in an ProX casing.

Because Jeroen, a lot of flyers enjoy and even prefer AeroTech propellants. As Dan Michael says, "There are a lot of motors available, but NOTHING BURNS LIKE A WHITE LIGHTNING!"

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Is there a cross reference as to which RMS case is to be used with which CTI reload? I can't seem to find it on the CTI site.

It has been added to the FAQ.

 

[daveyfire]

A question just popped into my head about cross-certification. (really? another one? no way! )

Say brand J has reloads which are cross compatible with hardware from brand K, and additionally brand J manufactures their own hardware. Brand J reloads are certified by manufacturer J to fire in either brand J or brand K hardware, while brand K reloads are only certified by manufacturer K to fire in brand K hardware.

Could brand J fire the required number of brand K reloads (presumably purchased at retail) in brand J hardware to certify the use of brand K propellant in brand J hardware? (Not that this makes much business sense at all, but it's a thought I had.)

I recall something in NFPA 1125 about "manufacturer intended use" which may disqualify this scenario, but I don't own a copy, so I'm not sure.

Cross-certification is a wonderful can of worms which points out absurdities in the certification process as a whole :cyclops:

 

[Papa Elf]

Because Jeroen, a lot of flyers enjoy and even prefer AeroTech propellants. As Dan Michael says, "There are a lot of motors available, but NOTHING BURNS LIKE A WHITE LIGHTNING!"

I like White Lightning motors, but I have grown very found of AMW's White Wolf. Lots of smoke, fire, a lot easier clean up that other whites using a graphite nozzle. I personally hope to see white wolf make its way to the Pro38 hardware. The CTI white is boring (Like standard but white)

I can't wait for Pro29 to come out =)

 

[AHansom]

Because Jeroen, a lot of flyers enjoy and even prefer AeroTech propellants. As Dan Michael says, "There are a lot of motors available, but NOTHING BURNS LIKE A WHITE LIGHTNING!"

except for maybe two White Lightnings

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

I like White Lightning motors, but I have grown very found of AMW's White Wolf. Lots of smoke, fire, a lot easier clean up that other whites using a graphite nozzle. I personally hope to see white wolf make its way to the Pro38 hardware. The CTI white is boring (Like standard but white)

I can't wait for Pro29 to come out =)

Normally I try to stay away from 'who has the biggest flame' type of threads. I'll make an exemption.

If you like bright flames and white smoke, you may be interested in our new propellant Imax(TM). It has a very bright white flame with a dense cloud of smoke. A wine connoisseur could even describe the flame as "having a hint of mint green" with the smoke cloud "an artists palette of blue, yellow and white".

After developing these, I would just say they are very loud and impressive. With superb performance. To be introduced soon (also in 29).

I'm attaching a picture below of a Pro38-6G.

 

[ben_ullman]

Normally I try to stay away from 'who has the biggest flame' type of threads. I'll make an exemption.

If you like bright flames and white smoke, you may be interested in our new propellant Imax(TM). It has a very bright white flame with a dense cloud of smoke. A wine connoisseur could even describe the flame as "having a hint of mint green" with the smoke cloud "an artists palette of blue, yellow and white".

After developing these, I would just say they are very loud and impressive. With superb performance. To be introduced soon (also in 29).

I'm attaching a picture below of a Pro38-6G.

OOOOHH!! What designation is that? J1200 ?

Ben

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

OOOOHH!! What designation is that? J1200 ?
Ben

The motor is the photo was a J385 or so. The largest one we have tested so far was app. an M1600 (in 75).

 

[DAllen]

Because Jeroen, a lot of flyers enjoy and even prefer AeroTech propellants. As Dan Michael says, "There are a lot of motors available, but NOTHING BURNS LIKE A WHITE LIGHTNING!"

True, but nothing assembles as easy as a ProX.

 

[ben_ullman]

The motor is the photo was a J385 or so. The largest one we have tested so far was app. an M1600 (in 75).

That is?! In a 6g!! Wow

Ben

 

[Papa Elf]

True, but nothing assembles as easy as a ProX.

and nobody has more accurate delays Tired of G71-1's and G64-99's

 

[knarfster]

Got it. I was reaing that backwords. The reason I aksed is that a M1500 or M1297 motor gives me the flight characteristics I want for my Level 3 attempt, and I like CTI hardware. The M1400 is too much for my 6 inch rocket to stay under our waiver, and I only see one M level 75mm reload from CTI (at this time)

Frank
Level 2
NAR
TRA

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Got it. I was reaing that backwords. The reason I aksed is that a M1500 or M1297 motor gives me the flight characteristics I want for my Level 3 attempt, and I like CTI hardware. The M1400 is too much for my 6 inch rocket to stay under our waiver, and I only see one M level 75mm reload from CTI (at this time)

We have some more M's in the 5G casing. They are not yet on our web site, but are available. They will be officially announced shortly:

Blue: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=6026-M1670-P
Red: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=6128-M1810-P

Both have a little bit less total impulse than the Classic M1400. There is also a 98% L. Just a little too small for your L3 attempt, but a very nice motor as well: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=5069-L1685-P

 

[cjl]

We have some more M's in the 5G casing. They are not yet on our web site, but are available. They will be officially announced shortly:

Blue: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=6026-M1670-P
Red: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=6128-M1810-P

Both have a little bit less total impulse than the Classic M1400. There is also a 98% L. Just a little too small for your L3 attempt, but a very nice motor as well: https://www.canadianrocketry.org/mcc_motor.php?motor=5069-L1685-P

Is the isp on that L motor accurate? Just 137 seconds?

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Is the isp on that L motor accurate? Just 137 seconds?

Yes, all smoky motors have quite low Isp. Because of the high density the of the propellant the total impulse is still reasonable (usually comparable to that of similar-sized Skidmark motors)

 

[deandome]

I saw the Imax M1540 (Dean Gelinsky's?) @ NSL on Saturday....WAY cool. People were pegging the flame @ about 15-20' long.

EDIT: Indeed it was the M4770 VMax! I heard "...Max" over the PA and I thought it looked like a 75mm motor when I saw it...the only fast/"..max" motor in 75mm was the new Imax. Still cool!!

There were lots of photos taken of everything...I'm sure you can see this one for yourself in the next few days. the NSL site says it'll have them up soon https://www.nsl2009.org/ , but I think they'll also have 'em @ TripWisc and/or WOOSH, too.

BTW, even though there certainly won't be any confusion among the public, how did you trademark "IMAX" name? Ida thunk the giant film people would go after anyone for anything so 'blatant.

The motor is the photo was a J385 or so. The largest one we have tested so far was app. an M1600 (in 75).

 

[rfjustin]

"I saw the Imax M1540 (Dean Gelinsky's?) @ NSL on Saturday....WAY cool."

I'm quite certain the motor was not the Imax 1540, it was the 4770 VMAX:... WICKED motor.

Video I took of the flight:

https://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i39/rfjustin/NSL 2009/?action=view&current=CTIM-4770VMAXWMV.flv



Justin

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

"I saw the Imax M1540 (Dean Gelinsky's?) @ NSL on Saturday....WAY cool."
I'm quite certain the motor was not the Imax 1540, it was the 4770 VMAX:... WICKED motor.
Justin

Indeed the M4770. We also have the 4G ready for certification. It is about an M6500. Anyone?

There was an Imax Pro75 launch at the Mile High Mayhem. That was impressive as well, I was told. Vmax is still missing in the Pro75 line, but not for long

Jeroen

 

[nh4clo4]

Indeed the M4770. We also have the 4G ready for certification. It is about an M6500. Anyone?

:shock: :jaw:

 

[cjl]

Indeed the M4770. We also have the 4G ready for certification. It is about an M6500. Anyone?

There was an Imax Pro75 launch at the Mile High Mayhem. That was impressive as well, I was told. Vmax is still missing in the Pro75 line, but not for long

Jeroen

There was. I was there - it was the 75/2G L IIRC. Excellent propellant

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

There was. I was there - it was the 75/2G L IIRC. Excellent propellant

Glad to hear that you liked it. I thought it was pretty impressive on the stand as well. Flights are so much better. I can't wait to see some flying. EDIT: any photos available of this flight, or of any of the other new Pro75 loads that flew there?

There is another motor for the same hardware as the M4770, the M2505 (Pro98-3G casing, also x-certified for RMS98/7680). A little longer burn, but very impressive as well. Not new, but very well worth it.

Jeroen

 

[Jeroen_at_CTI]

Because Jeroen, a lot of flyers enjoy and even prefer AeroTech propellants. As Dan Michael says, "There are a lot of motors available, but NOTHING BURNS LIKE A WHITE LIGHTNING!"

Here is an interesting comparison. Same rocket flown twice on Pro29 and RMS29. Photos from Bdale Barbee taken at Mile High Mayhem launch. Photo on the left: White Thunder. Photo on the right: White Lightning.

 

[troj]

Assuming the motors are pretty comparable in size, White Lightning looks to produce a bit more smoke, while White Thunder produces a bit more flame.

But the flame geometry is totally different between the two -- White Thunder starts expanding right at the nozzle, whereas the White Lightning comes down a bit before it starts to expand.

What causes the difference, and what's the impact (if any) on motor performance at typical HPR altitudes?

-Kevin